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作者：starinheart（来自豆瓣）
来源：https://www.douban.com/note/664856884/
Oprah: Okay, but you know, what I think of, for , for many people who are new to this kind of thinking and even for myself , when I first started reading loving what is , and I hear about not resisting the moment, I understand that in certain, in a certain context, and then I think about, as an african-american ,growing up in the United States at a time when there was a whole group of people ,civil rights leaders , and people whose names made the history books and did not, who made it possible for me to be where I am, (Katie: Yeah) , to sit where I am today, and had they not resisted the injustices, had they not fought against , uh, what was the , what was considered the norm, you know, I wouldn't be here, nor would there have been progress or success. So, how do you explain of define that?
奥普拉：好吧，但是你知道，我想到，对于很多新手而言，甚至对我自己而言。当我第一次读《一念之转》这本书的时候，我看见你说不要对抗当下，我理解这句话在某些情况下是成立的，在特定情况下是成立的。但是，我又想到，作为一个非裔美国人，成长在美国这个国家，在这个国家曾经有那么一群人，比如民主权利的领袖，以及那些载入史册或者没有载入史册的人们，正是他们使我今天能够待在这里，（凯蒂: 是的），使我能够坐在我现在的位子上。难道他们不是因为抵抗了当时社会的不公平，难道他们不是还击了，嗯，当时的社会规则么？你知道，否则的话，我不可能在这里的，我也不可能进步或成功。所以，你怎么解释或者定义那些事情呢？
Katie：It's so slow. (Oprah:mm-hmm) .Even though it appears fast, it's , you know, in our lifetime, it's so slow, (Oprah:Right). I say, faster, you know, the work is for people in a hurry(果冻补充，在另一个人视频中解释过这个huarry的意思，是hurry to end their suffering),you know ,for people suffering that are in a hurry , and, and ,and, yes that's true it's the best we had going for us on this planet.(Oprah:Right).But it is ready, it's, you know, this is a whole other paradigm that we're steping into， and basically as we believe our thoughts, we are going to fight, and that is slow. You know, can you imagine a world that is so ancient that they still kill each other? (Oprah: Yeah) . Where they still hate each other. Well, you know ,it's it's ,for me, that's an ancient world. And we're all just kind of ,just moving on to all this (Oprah: Evolving from this) ,Evolving from that, but yes those minds, and yes that courage, you know, that's the Gods there. (Oprah: It's necessary for that time.) .Absolutely.
凯蒂：那太慢了。（奥普拉：嗯）。即使它看起来很快，但是，它还是，你知道，对我们的一生而言，它还是太慢了，（奥普拉：对的）。我是说，可以更快地去，你知道，功课是对于那些想要更快一点儿终结痛苦的人。你知道，功课是对于那些正在遭受痛苦的人更快一些的解决方法。嗯，嗯，你说的那些事情是我们这个星球在当时最好的选择。（奥普拉：是的）。但是，现在已经，现在，，嗯，你知道，我们完全进入了一个新时代。简单来说，如果我们相信了我们的念头，我们就会去反抗。那太慢了。你知道，你能够想象当代世界是如此地老旧，现在人们之间还在互相杀害么? （奥普拉：是）我们现在还在互相杀害。嗯，你知道，那，那对我来说是太远古世界的事情了。我们都，嗯，慢慢地走到今天。（奥普拉：从这儿进化了），从那儿进化了。但是，那个时候的那些念头，那种勇气，你知道，是，是神圣的。（奥普拉：对于那个时代是必要的。）完全正确。
Oprah: And you're saying this is a different time and a different way of reacting.
奥普拉：你说这是一个不同的时代，有一个不同的对痛苦的终结方式。
Katie: Yes. (Oprah: Yeah), you know, you know, I have to tell you , Oprah, I , one of the most moving things I've ever seen in my life, was I watched you not long ago, you were, you were facing, there was a crowd, it looked like all around you, and you had your arm in the air lilke this, and you said,"I am a free woman. " (Oprah: Oh.). And you turn behind you is I am a free woman, and I, it was, it just rang from my head to my toe. That's our birthright as a human being. Freedom, you know, I was in, I was in a very large prison, uh, one day when I was there working with these men. A man started screaming, and he screamed and he screamed, and it set every one of many other men off screaming. But he was screaming because he was shut in a cell with his head. I mean, he was shut, they shut him in there with himself. (Oprah:mm) And when you believe your thoughts, you are, you are, that's hell.(Oprah: Right). And you put a Buddist monk in there, and you shut the door, he says "thank you".(Oprah:mm) Yeah.( Oprah: I got that). But this man that you lock up, you know, it's " I'm a terrible human being, I did it wrong, there's no hope for me.Uh, no one understands....". That is hell.
凯蒂：是的。（奥普拉：好吧）。你知道，你知道，我曾经告诉过你的，奥普拉， 我，嗯，我生命中最感动的一次，就是不久之前我看见你，你在一大群人中，他们好像都围绕着你，然后你向我这样伸出手臂，你说，“ 我是一个自由的女人。”（奥普拉：哦。）然后，你转过身又说，“我是一个自由的女人。” 那，你真的彻底打动了我。自由，是我们生而为人的天赋权利。自由，你知道，我曾经去过一个很大的监狱。嗯，有一天我在那儿和这些犯人做功课的时候。一个男人开始尖叫，他叫啊，叫啊，后来很多其他犯人也跟着尖叫起来。但是，他之所以尖叫，是因为他被关进了牢房，不得不面对自己的头脑。我的意思是说，他被锁了起来，警卫们将这个犯人与他自己的想法锁在了一起。（奥普拉：嗯）。其实如果你将一个佛教的和尚关进牢房并且锁上门，他会和你说“谢谢”。（奥普拉：嗯）是的。（奥普拉：我明白了）。但是这个被锁起来的男人，你知道，嗯，与他相伴的是那些念头，“我是一个可怕的人。我做错了。我再也没有希望了。啊，再也没有人能够理解我。。。”。。那是地狱。
Oprah: I got that epiphany just then, cuz right, there's only him in the cell with himself. (Katie:Yeah). And he's screaming. (Katie:Yes, oh my ..). Because he's left alone with his own mind. (Katie:Yeah). Well then, don't, do, do you believe that some people deserve punishment for those things they just did.
奥普拉：我突然明白了你的意思。因为你说得对。在那间小牢房中，只有他自己与自己相伴。（凯蒂：是的）。所以他尖叫。（凯蒂：是的，老天。）因为他不得不与自己的这些念头相伴了。（凯蒂：是的）。好吧，你难道不，嗯，你不觉得人们应该为自己所做的坏事儿受到惩罚么？
Katie: Absolutely not. Oh my goodness, you know, no one would hurt or harm another human being if they were not confused, no one would kill another human being if they were not believe their thoughts. If someone walked up and, you know, if someone ..
凯蒂：我绝对不同意。我的天，你知道，如果他们不是犯糊涂的话，没有人真的会伤害另一个人；如果他们不相信自己的想法的话，没有人会杀害别人。如果有人走过来，嗯，你知道，如果有人。。
Oprah: This is just radical, this is so radical. How are we, what are we gonna do with the prisons and all those people who are harming people?
奥普拉：这太颠覆了，这太颠覆了。那我们怎么，我们要监狱干什么呢？我们该怎么对待那些正在伤害别人的人呢？
Katie: You know, I say that if they question what they believe, then they rehabilitate it, and then when they come out, they are different human beings.
凯蒂：你知道，我说的是，如果他们能够质询自己所相信的念头，那么他们就能够重获新生。当他们出来的时候，他们就会成为完全不同的人。
Oprah: Okay. But do you believe that they have to be incarcerated, someplace?
奥普拉：好吧。但是你相信他们必须得被关进牢房，或者其他什么地方么？
Katie: Well, absolutely, if I hurt you and I hurt someone else, and I hurt some one else. Have you ever hurt someone, you know that feels? (Oprah:Yes). My goodness, stop me, if you love me, stop me, lock me up, (Oprah:Yes), because it hurts me to harm another human being,(Oprah:Right), it's ，it's mercy.(Oprah:Yeah,right). But then give me some way to deal with my mind, so that I don't do it again. (Oprah:mm-hmm), and that way is self-realization, God realization, and the work is, it is, it is the way to wake up.
凯蒂：嗯，绝对必要。如果我伤害了你，我伤害了其他人，嗯，如果我伤害了别人。你伤害过别人么？你知道那种感受么？（奥普拉：是的）。我的天，快阻止我吧，如果你爱我，请快点阻止我，将我锁起来吧。（奥普拉：是的）。因为伤害别人会让我自己受伤。（奥普拉：是的）。那是，把犯人关起来那是一种慈悲。（奥普拉：是的，对的）。但是，接着要给我一些可以处理我的念头的方法，这样我才不至于旧病重犯。（奥普拉：嗯）。那个方法就是自我解脱，上帝的解脱，嗯，功课，它就是，就是帮助人们觉醒的方法。
Oprah: And you're saying the self-realizaiton not live doesn't mean a thing. It's just a bunch of goo goo gah gah.
奥普拉：你说过，没有活出来的自我解脱一点儿意义也没有，那只不过是一堆不知所云的词句而已。
Katie: Yeah, exactly.
凯蒂：是的，完全正确。 |
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