果冻出品：凯蒂 "跟上现实”深度访谈（连载11） ...

starinheart

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作者：果冻.Angela（来自豆瓣）
来源：https://www.douban.com/note/692967987/

接上~

JoB：

You know，it's an interest thing，because my Emma, who's ten, my Emma. She worries about the triplets.Last week, we were at the playground, we couldn't find Sam, She couldn't find him, but it's a thing, you know, she's very young since the triplets came home. And Emma freaks, and she's frozen. And you know people have commented about it before,  you know. and some people see it as a virtue, like oh here's Emma worries about her. and  but then ,you  know, I don't know. I'm seeing something else about it now.

你知道，有件有趣的事情。因为我的女儿艾玛，10岁了，我的小艾玛。她很担心她的三胞胎弟弟。上个兴趣，我们一起在广场上玩儿，我们忽然找不到山姆了，她找不到他。但是你知道，这对她来说是件大事。三胞胎出生的时候，艾玛还很小。所以，当时艾玛僵住了，她吓僵了。你知道，曾经有人说过艾玛这个问题，有些人会将其视为是一种美德，就像是艾玛会担心别人。但是那时候，你知道，我也说不好，但是现在我对这件事有点新的看法。

Katie:

It's a virtue as Emma suffers. She's really in fear.(She's in fear.) It's painful.( very, for her. and she tells me, "Daddy, I don't know how to get out of it." I don't know how to get out of it.）

艾玛会痛苦是一种美德？她真的很害怕好不好。（她很害怕）那非常痛苦。（是的，对她来说非常痛苦）她告诉我说，”爸爸，我不知道该怎么办好。“ 可是我也不知道该怎么办。。）

well, you're not get you out of it, you're not know how to get her out of it. "You see Sam's not okay,honey? you know, can we absolutely know that that's true? you know, we can't know, so let's go and find Sam. let's go and find Sam.“

是的，你不能让自己不担心，所以你也不知道怎么帮助艾玛不要担心。你可以这样说，”甜心，你认为山姆出事了，是么？要知道，我们真的确定山姆出事了么？要知道，我们不能完全确定，所以让我们一起去找找山姆。让我们一起去找找他。”

JoB:

Take her and find him.(Yeah) Right, well. somehow, something in me is like this I have compassion for her with it now. you know, it's not like" Emma，what do you getting so so ..?!" You know. (Yeah) And then I'm mad and..

牵着她的手去找他。（是的）对哦。是的。不知怎么回事，我现在的心情对艾玛升起一种关爱。你知道，那并不是以前我的反应，以前我的反应是，”艾玛，你到底怎么回事？！“ 你知道（是的）然后我会发火。

Katie:

She's believing her thoughts about Sam, (and I'm believing , you know. that ,I'm doing the same.) You're believing your thoughts about Emma.(Right.)

她相信了她关于山姆的念头。（我相信了。。你知道，我和艾玛一样）你相信了你关于艾玛的念头。

JoB：

And it's all sort of goes to pot, you know. (Yeah, yeah. It's um we just see that as common existence.) You know.It's funny because in the book, you know, you , I don't know, you know, it's my thing, but I like sort of connected to Roxanne.(Yeah) And again it's more of the children thing.(Yeah)

所有的事情都糟糕透了，你知道。（是的，嗯，而我们却当这是一种正常现象。）要知道，很有趣，因为我在读这本书的时候，我也不知道为什么，这或许是我的事儿，我觉得与罗克珊有一种共鸣。（是的）再一次，这更像是前面我们讨论过的关于孩子们的那件事。（是的）

Katie:

So you just say her name, you know, my daughter's name, and ,and I'm just filled with joy and love and and tears come to my eyes, I just, we're so close and ,but that is dead or alive, for all I know, she's dead, a truck hit her. What do I know,(Right). So it would not be her death that would bring suffering into my life, it would be what I was thinking the moment they told me she died.

所以，当你刚刚提到她的名字时，你知道，提到我女儿的名字的时候，我只是充满了喜悦、爱，眼泪会涌入眼眶。我只是，我们是如此的亲密，哪管（在那些此刻升起的画面中）她是死的还是活的。据我所知，她可能已经死了，或许有辆卡车撞到了她。可是我又能知道些什么呢?.. 嗯（是的）所以，不可能是她的死将痛苦带入我的生活，只可能是在别人告诉我她死的那一刻我所相信的念头，才会让我痛苦。

JoB:

I'm gonna to tell you the story that I love in the book, and it just spoke to me, and I don't know why.But you know, so you're ,I don't know where you were with her, and you meet a friend comes up to you in the supermarket with Roxanne. and there you guys are strolling down buying whatever you're buying,and over walks this friend,who hasn't seen you for a long time. and she says"oh, katie, how's your mother?" and you say," Oh, my mother's great. she's dead."(mm-hm) and then Roxanne says,that ,you know,you walked out, she says," you know,mommy, just really can't talk to people like that. they just can't handle it."

我想要说的是我深爱这本书。它对我很有共鸣。我不知道为什么，但是要知道，你，我不确定当时你和她在什么地方，你和罗克珊在超市遇到了一个老朋友。你们正在四处转悠买东西，你的朋友走过来说，”嘿，凯蒂，你妈妈怎么样了？” 你说，“哦，我妈妈很好，她死了。”（嗯哼）然后当你们走出去的时候，罗克珊说，“妈妈，千万别那样和别人说话，他们无法理解。”

Katie:

On this book-tour, many people came , to thank me for <a thousand names>,and one woman in particular said, I've always worried about losing my cat, and it was like the worst thing that could ever happened. and I've had my cat for 20 years, and my cat died and I am NOT greeting, I can't make myself grieve, I can't make . she said that cat is so everywhere. It's like nothing shifted and changed. and she said it comes from reading this book. The very thing she's dreaded just isn't happening. So there were a great shift took place in that woman, and all she heard was the truth , and it made sense to her, mind was able to shift to that, because it just made sense. Those simple truths through<a thought names> and they're just traveling through the planet, and waking people up to what is ,and what isn't, the difference between those two.

在这个售书的巡演过程中，很多人来感谢我的《无尽的喜悦》这本书。特别是，有个女士说，我一直到都担心失去我的猫咪，那好像是世界上最可怕的事情，我与我的猫咪在一起生活20多年了。但是我的猫咪死掉了，而我却没有悲伤。我无法让自己悲伤，我不能。她对我说，她的猫咪无处不在。那就像是什么都没有改变。她说那种平静来自于读了这本书的收获。她所最害怕的事情，并没有发生。所以，对于那个女士而言，这是一种极大的转变。所有她从书中听到的都是真相，这对她是有意义的。念头能够转化，因为那是真相。透过《无尽的喜悦》，这些简单的真相能够传达到整个星球的每个角落，让人们能够觉醒于什么是真的，什么是假的，以及两者之间的区别是什么。

JoB:

So, what , but what does she mean, you can't talk to people, that way, they can't handle it?

所以，当时你那样和别人说话的时候，她说 “人们无法理解。”是什么意思呢？

Katie:

Well ,um, she watched this change take place at me from the beginning. and she would , you know, without references, you ,you learn everything again. like" Mom, we don't wear pajamas ,um, to the market. we only wear them in the house. and it was "Okay,Okay, so we wear this here, we wear this".. this is a lot for the mind to ,to remember. It's , it'sa crazy dream. it's.. life is a dream.so let's see in the dream, it goes better if you don't wear the red sock with the black sock, you wear two reds or two blacks.

嗯，她从头到尾见证了我的转变。她，你知道，没有任何的参考，每件事你都必须从头学起。就像是，“妈妈，我们不能穿着睡衣去市场，睡衣是在家里穿的。” “哦，好的。”所以我们在这儿穿这件，在那儿穿那件。这对于心念来说，有许多要去记住的。。这是一个疯狂的梦境。生活是一场梦。所以，我们认为，在梦里，最好是不要一只脚穿红袜子，一只脚穿黑袜子；你应该穿两只红袜子，或者两只黑袜子。。

And I think my goodness, who thinks of these things.(Right) who put this stuff together? and you just get so excited and about “ wow," you know, and she was kind of defining how we do things here.( I see).Giving me refereces, and because the "don't know" mind at the level I was experiencing it, and again no one has to start from scratch this way, and if they do. they're perfectly safe.(Right) you know, as I would walk through airports, and it says" baggage.", I don't have to know." Gate 53", I don't have to know, it's all done for me.(Right.)Want to know what time it is? Ask someone. and it's ,, people love to be asked, they lobe to obe asked.

我心想，我的天。谁想出来的这些事情？！（是的）谁把这些规则制定出来的呢？你只是很兴奋，“哇哦”。要知道，罗克珊就像是类似定义我们该如何在这里做事情一样。（我明白）因为在我所体会的那个“不知道”的心念层面上，她给我很多参考经验。当然，再次说一下，没有人必须向我一样从头来过，但是如果他们也得这样，也没什么大不了的。（是的）。你知道，就像我去飞机场一样，有个声音说“行李”，我不必知道那是什么。”53号登机口“，我也不必知道那是什么。所有的一切都已经就绪。（是的）。想要知道现在几点么？问一下别人就好了。嗯，人们非常乐意被提问，他们非常喜欢被提问。

I recall , catching a red-eye one night, and there was the nicest looking man, seated next to me when  I sat down. and and he had on this, this wonderful business suit. and it was just so comfortable to sit down,take his hand and his arm,put tit in my lap, close my eyes and go to sleep. and when I woke up, he had not moved his hand, and you know. Things like that.I say,you know, he was someone wise enough to know that we don't have to be introduced, that we're all friends.and when we need each other, we're there for each other.

我记得，我有一次搭乘红眼航班，当我坐下的时候，旁边坐着的是一位长相非常友善的先生。他穿着非常合体的西装。我只是非常舒服的坐下，拿起他的手臂放在我的膝盖上，闭上眼睛睡着了。当我醒来的时候，他都没有移动他的手臂。你知道，就像类似的事情。要知道，我得说，他是如此地聪明过，知道我们根本不需要彼此介绍，我们本来就是朋友。当我们需要彼此的时候，彼此就在那里。

(You picked the right guy.) mm-hmm, well,who wouldn't? who wouldn't? you see your belief system , whatever you were thinking in that moment(Right) keeps you from experiencing people as your friends. That's why you see, that's where the term stranger happened.(Right) There're no strangers. there are no,, there is no one that thinks differently than you do. In other words, There are no new stressful thoughts in every language in the world. There are no new ones。as long as we're stuck in those thoughts, in other words, as long as we're believing those thoughts, we are going to remain as dinosaurs, like ancients, like superstitious,frightened children.

（哦，你选了一个对的人。）嗯，好吧，可是谁不是那个对的人呢？谁不是呢？你只要看看你的信念系统就好了，无论那个时刻你相信了什么。（是的）那个时刻你所相信的那些念头，阻碍了你将人们体验为朋友。那是为什么，你所看见的是。。。嗯，就像人们说的，看见的是一个陌生人。（对的）。世界上没有陌生人，没有。没有人和你想的不同。换句话说，世界上无论哪里，无论那种语言，根本没有什么新鲜的念头。没有什么新鲜的念头。只要我们还卡在那些念头中，换句话说，只要我们还相信着那些念头，我们就活在了恐龙时代，就像原始人一样，就像是超级迷信的原始人一样，就像是吓坏了的孩子一样。

JoB:

Wow,crazy a litte, right?

哇， 有点疯狂，是不是？

Katie:

Crazy a lot.(Crazy a lot) we still kill people on this planet, thinking that it's going to work differently than , than it ever has, and it doesn't.

非常疯狂。（非常疯狂。。）我们这个星球，现在居然还有人会去杀人，认为杀人能够解决问题，认为事情会和在原始社会有区别。实际上，我们和原始社会没有区别。

JoB:

There're people who , who believe , I mean, well ,you know, smart people， intellectuas , if you ,you know, will,writers and you know, colonists,and I'm, you know, you've met who believe in war.or but, you know, who  believe. you know, and they're smart,so you can get a Harvard professor who believes what he believes, you know, and so you , take someone like me, and I'll say, oh, that's a Harvard professor, he knows.So, I follow, or I agree. so .

社会上有些人相信，我的意思是，有些很聪明的人，天才，你知道，比如作家，殖民者等等。要知道，你会遇见一些支持战争的人，嗯，他们非常聪明。所以，你可能会遇到一个哈佛教授，他相信自己的念头。你知道，就拿我来说，我会想，”哦，那是哈佛教授，他肯定懂的。所以，我就会跟随他的想法，或者我认同他的观点。。所以。

Katie:

So you begin to believe what he believes.And so you remain a believer.

所以，你开始相信他所相信的那些念头。所以，你依旧是一个相信念头的人。

JoB:

And sometimes when I see someone who has an opinion and it could even be about war, and they make sense to me. I go with it.(again) you know, it's just , it's amazing, I..

有时候，当我看见有些人的观点，即便那些观点是支持战争，如果它们对我来讲有共鸣，我就会支持他。。（同样的情况）你知道，这太神奇了。我。

Katie:

Yeah, It's not right or wrong.It's just that it makes sense to you. and that's where you go, and that's , that's how we do it.

是的，这与对错无关，只不过那些念头能够引起你的共鸣，你就会跟随那些念头，嗯，那就是我们如果陷入念头的过程。

~~ 待续~~~ 真的很长哦，呵呵。

吉吉

太棒了