果冻出品：凯蒂 "跟上现实”深度访谈（连载8）

starinheart

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作者：果冻.Angela（来自豆瓣）
来源：https://www.douban.com/note/691636213/

接上~

JoB:

What comes first? A feeling or a thought?

哪一个在先？感受还是念头？

Katie:

So ,the thought comes first. Thought is cause,it's original cause. It's , it's the first. Um, without the thought, what is there to feel?Nothing. So, you have to be identified like I am Katie, and if I believed that, then I can feel. But what is feeling? there's no way to identify,so it's always thought. Thought and then feel.  But people recognize feelings first, so they think feelings come first.  and that would lead us to believe that we have been struck with feelings, and there's nothing we can do about it. That the life is just suffering. and when people question what they believe. Then they come to see that thought first ,then feeling, and this is wonderful news, because it gives us control over our feelings.

所以，是念头在前面。念头是原因，是最初的原因，它是最先出现的。嗯，没有那个念头，还去感受什么呢？什么都没有。所以，你必须要先认定一件事，比如说，认定了“我是凯蒂”，然后如果我相信了这个念头，那么我才能感觉。但是人们常常会先感受到感觉，所以他们认为是感觉先来的。那样想会让我我们深信，我们只能陷入在感受中，毫无办法。那样的生活只有痛苦。当人们开始质疑他们所相信的念头。那么，他们会看见其实是念头在先，然后才是感受。而这是一个好消息，因为它让我们拥有了能够控制我们感受的方法。

We can notice it, question what we were believing as we were feeling those feelings , or just prior to feeling them. and turn that ,that stess , into a whole different experience. For example, if we're thinking of stressful thoughts, we question it , the next time that thought happens, inside of us,We no longer believe it, so where there was stress, there's laughter. and  I don't know anyone that opposes laughter, unless they've just had a surgery, and and it hurts. And they don't complain too much about that.

我们可以注意到感受，然后质疑那些我们在体会那个感受当下，所升起的念头；或者在感受到它们之前质疑那些念头，并将那种压力转化为一个全然不同的体会。例如，如果我们正在想着一些有压力的念头，我们质疑它，下一次念头在我们内心升起时，我们便不再相信它，所以不会再有压力，而是欢笑。我不认为有任何人不想欢笑，除非他们刚刚动了外科手术，大笑的话会牵动伤口的疼痛。而即便是那些人，也不会太反对大笑。

JoB:

But you know, you could have the belief, like after someone dies, that laughter is wrong.That there's a period of mouring. That could be.

但是你知道，你可能会拥有某种观念，比如说某人去世了以后，大笑是不礼貌的，需要有一段时间来悼念亡人，等等这样的信念。

Katie:

Well, and then there is a period of mouring for many many people. and ,and as well there should be, look what they're believing. How could they not. (right.) And I love that we respect sadness, and that we are very respectful of all feelings.  And it's ,it's feelings are the effect of thoughts. So when someone sad, I respect them very deeply. I remember when sadness was possible for me also, and all I know, it still is possible. but you know ,not yet.(right, right. God, that's great.) There's a respect about it. that is , that goes with it. Like if I see someone sad, I see someone being very very honest, someone courageous enough to be open, and feel what they feel. and ,and um, I know what that pain is like (right). So there's a lot of respect that goes with that. If I believed what they believed, I would be sad too. (Right).  So ,I live in a state of grace.

是的，对于很多人来说需要一段哀悼的时间，而且就像他们所深信的那样，对他们来说也应该有那样一段时间。他们怎么能没有呢？（是的）我深爱着我们对于悲伤的尊重，我们尊重所有的感受。嗯，它是，它是念头的结果。所以，当有人悲伤时，我发自内心尊重他们。我也还记得我自己曾有的那些悲伤，而且据我所知，它对我也是可能发生的事情。但是你知道，只是还没发生过罢了。（是的，是的，天，那真是太棒了。）也就是说，对于悲伤，我非常尊重。如果我见到某人在悲伤，我会认为他非常非常诚实，他是一个有勇气将悲伤坦露于外的，体会着自己的感受的人。嗯，我了解那种伤痛的程度（是的）。所以，对于悲伤应该给予很多的尊重。如果我相信他们所相信的，我也会悲伤。（是的）。所以，我活在感恩的状态下。

JoB:

So, like as we sit here , right and talk,  I , I don't know,  it's hard to identify, like there I feel things or whatever's happening, I don't know. Like I feel sometimes , something behind my eyes, or something here.(Yeah).  What is that, just is that feeling? or is that a sensation or ..

所以，就像我们坐在这里，正在谈话，我不知道，很难描述，就像我感觉到某种东西，或者什么正在发生着，我也说不好，我感受到某样东西，某样藏在我眼睛后面的东西，或者这儿有些情绪。（是的）那是什么？那只是一种感受么？还是说，那是一种觉知或者。。

Katie:

You know, it's like as your mind opens, the symbol for that is the heart opens. It's like when your mind opens, it's, it's like your whole body, your whole being opens up,

要知道，那就像是你的心在敞开，那代表着你的心正在敞开。就像是念头敞开一样，那就像是你整个的身体，整个的存在完全敞开了。

JoB:

because I feel it, you know. like as we're talking I feel, you know,

因为我能体会到，你知道，在我们对话的过程中，我能感受到。

Katie:

It's like a ring.(here, a lot here) yeah. You've been, your whole genetics DNA is changing. I like to say that the everytime you see that something isn't true, something you've been believing all of your own life , you see that it's not true. Then the next child that comes into the world can, cannot velcro, cannot  attach to that thought  as strongly as they could have before you question that belief, because the world is believing that less.(right) And that is the end of war.and that's the power of this work. and that is what it's about, and it is personal work. It is not for everyone, it is for you, it's for the one that picks it up, and gets personal with it. (Right). the one that really wants peace in their life, and joy ,and happiness, and wants to end the war with themselves. and also you know, with this, the work is a peace movement.

它就像是一个闹钟。（这儿，心中很多的感受）是的。你的，你的整个基因都在转变。我喜欢说每一次你发现某些东西不是真的之后，某些你终生相信的念头不再为真的时候。那么，下一刻诞生在这个世界的婴儿，再也无法像你在质疑那些念头之前那样，会对那个念头有那样强烈的执着。因为，整个世界对这个念头的执着已经减少了（对的）。这是战争的终结，这是功课的力量。那是那个念头的意义，它是个人的功课。这个念头不是给每个人的，它是给你的。念头是属于拾起它的那个人（是的），属于那个真正想要在生命中获得平静、喜悦和快乐的人，属于想要终结与念头对战的人。同时，就这方面而言，功课可以说是一场和平运动。

JoB:

I can see that.

我能够了解。

Katie:

You know, it's certainly just from reading <a thousand names for joy>,you know, your life is shifting, and " is it true?" has become so alive in your mind.(Right) and it's ,it gets in there like , like any other thought, only it's a thought that's working, and it's ,it's a thought that opens the rest of itself, the rest of mind's self, up to more. And as it continues to fall into that, the mind continues to open, the heart continues to open.  

要知道，它就是从你阅读《喜悦无处不在》这本书开始，要知道，你的生命已经开始转变。“那是真的么？”这句问话已经在你的心中鲜活起来。（是的）。这句提问就这样进入你的生命，就像其他的念头一样，只不过它是一个有效的念头，它是能够拆解自身其他念头的念头，知道拆解所有心智的其余的念头。当它持续地深入内心的时候，心也随之持续地敞开，心会持续地开放。

~~ 待续~~