果冻出品：凯蒂 "跟上现实”深度访谈（连载3）

starinheart

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作者：starinheart（来自豆瓣）
来源：https://www.douban.com/note/690371459/

果冻叨叨：这段对话谈到了死亡的问题。这部分内容与《心经》中的 “色即是空，空即是色，色不异空，空不异色；受想行识，亦复如是”相通。：)



接上：

JoB：

" I  have a friend who after doing inquiry sincerely for a number of years, came to  understand that the world is a reflection of mind. She was married to a man who was the love of her life, and one day while they were sitting on their couch, he had a heart attack and died in her arms. After the first shock of the tears, she began looking for grief and there is was none. For weeks she kept looking for grief because her friends told her that the grief was a necessary part of the healing process, and all she felt was a completeness that， there was nothing of him that she'd had while he was physically with her ，that she didn't have now.

JoB阅读书中的片段：“我有一个朋友做了很多年的功课，慢慢了解到世界只不过是念头的投射。她嫁给了一个她深爱的男人。有一天，当他们夫妻正坐在阳台上的时候，她丈夫突发心脏病，死在了她的臂弯里。经历了最初的震惊之后的泪水之后，她开始在内心寻找伤悲，但是却没有找到。之后的几个星期，她一直在内心寻找伤悲，因为她的朋友们告诉她那是治疗失去亲人痛苦的一部分。但是她所有能找到的只是一份完整，所有他活着的时候她所拥有的关于他的一切，此刻没有一样缺失。

She told me that every time a sad thought about him appeared, she would immediately ask ‘ Is it true?', and see the turnaround which washed away the sadness and replaced it with what was true.' He was my best friend,  I have no one to talk to.' became ' I am my best best friend,  I have me to talk to now. 'I'll miss his wisdom' became 'I don't miss his wisdom.' there was no way she could miss it, because she was that wisdom. Everything she thought she had in him, she could find in herself,  there was no difference. And because he turned out to be her, he couldn't die.Without the story of life and death, she said there was just love,he was always with her."

她告诉我，每次当一个关于他的悲伤的念头显现的时候，她马上就会提问：“这是真的么？”，然后看到那些反转的念头将这个念头中的悲伤冲刷掉，并展现给她真正的真实。“他是我最亲爱的朋友，我没有人可以说话了。”变为“我是我最亲爱的朋友，我可以和我自己说话。” “我错失了他的智慧。”变为“我没有错失他的智慧。” 她根本不可能错失他的智慧，因为她就是那个智慧本身。每一件她认为是来自于他身上的某件事，她都能够在自身发现，这两者根本没有区别。因为他其实就是她，他不可能死。如果没有关于生和死的故事，她说剩下的只是爱，他永远都和她在一起。

（果冻补充：这一段比较烧脑，呵呵。）

So, I'm like reading this and going. "Forget it, Laura! listen to this".and you know, I'm saying. "You, you wouldn't feel that way"  and she says, " you know, I can really get that as possible.(Yeah) And I , and I find myself, and I upset myself with that.”

所以，我喜欢读这一段文字，你知道我对劳拉说，“嘿，别想了，劳拉！听听这段话。你，你不要再那么悲伤了。”  她回答说，“你知道，我真的能够明白这段话所说的那个意思。”（是的）“但是，我，我还是一想起那件事就难过。”

Katie:

Yeah, It's like we think ,um, if you don't,,, if you don't , if we don't suffer over you , that  , that we don't love you. (Right, what's up with that.) Well, suffering teaches sufffering. and it's the opposite of what we want for ourselves and other people, which is to live a happy balanced life.And sadness is um, is , is , sadness is a miner tantrum, is the war with what is.

是的，那就像是，我们认为，如果你不，如果你不，如果我们不对你（亡人）感到悲伤，那就表示我们不爱你。（是的，那是怎么一回事呢？）可是，痛苦只会教导痛苦。而且，那是与我想要让自己和他人快乐生活的反面。我们想要的是一个快乐平衡的生活，而不是一个痛苦的生活。悲伤，嗯，悲伤是一种微量的愤怒，是与现实的对抗。

JoB：

Sadness is .. My father in-law died in January, and it was devastating to my mother in-law,  and my wife is sad from time to time. you know, she's very does her day and does her life, and then sometimes at night she'll cry. and I'll say "are you sad?" and she'll say," yes, something, something in me misses him,  and you know, I don't hear his voice and ”, you know , like that." So some ,so I, so I'm having trouble sort of distinguishing at all. Is ..

悲伤是。。。我的岳父今年一月份去世了。这对我岳母是一个毁灭性的打击，我的妻子常常会悲伤。你知道，她也会做东做西，过生活。但是有时候到了夜晚她会哭泣。我问她，“你在伤心么？”她说，“是的，我有点儿想念他，你知道，我再也听不见他的声音了 等等。所以，有时，我，我根本没办法区分这些情感。。”

Katie:

Well, you know, really , she was probably hearing his voice in her head , as he , as she says" I don't hear his voice". So.. And also "I'll ever see him again." is another thought people experience ,and as they're imagining that person in their head. They're seeing him, um, and on and on and on...

So, I say no one can die, they don't have that ,  they don't have that option in my life. No one dies.

可是，你知道，真的么？她可能那时头脑中正在听见他的声音，就在她说，“我无法听见他的声音。”的那一刻。所以，同样的，“我无法再见到他了。”是人们的另一个念头，而其实那时他们的头脑中正在想到那个人。他们其实看见他了，嗯。。。以此类推。

JoB:

Because they're there with you?

因为他们是在那儿（头脑中）和你在一起的？是这样么？

Katie:

Well. because as we , as you were talking about her , um, Laura's father, um , I was imaging my father immediately, it was a happening,and there he was. And that's what I did when he was alive, and to say he's on the other side of that room. I imagine him in the other side of the room, and and I saw him in my head when he was alive. So, there's no difference.(Right).there's no difference.

好吧。因为当你提到她的，嗯劳拉的爸爸，我的头脑马上就联想起我的爸爸。那是一种自然的发生，他就在那里。其实那也是当他（凯蒂的爸爸）活着的时候，我所反应的情况，比如说他在隔壁的房间里的话。我想象他在隔壁的房间，当他活着的时候我在我的头脑里看见他。所以，这两者没有区别（是的）。这两者没有区别。

Touch, and smell and taste and textures,everything is um, is a projection of mind. we would believe that something , that there is something outside of mind. That's how powerful mind is. And there's nothing outside of mind. Mind creates it all.

触摸、气味、味道、质感，每一件事，嗯，每一件事都是念头的投射。我们会相信真的有什么东西，是存在于念头之外的。哦，念头的力量是多么的强大啊。但其实，根本没有什么是存在于念头之外的。新年创造了这一切。

（果冻插播：舍利子，色不异空，空不异色，色即是空，空即是色。受想行识，亦复如是。--《心经》）

JoB:

You know, my father died when I was 23, and I lived at home, but I was away a lot of the day. So I didn't see him anyway.(He lived in your imagination) . You know, as amazing as I just have, when I was a little kid, I was always shocking to me,  that's very like strong from, you know. I was always shocking to me when I, I always thought when I stop by myself that I only existed, and then I was always amazed that other people appearing, Because I couldn't get where they came from?

你知道，我父亲在我23岁的时候去世的，我当时在家里经历了那一切 。但是或许是父亲去世太久了。所以，我从没有见过他。（他活在你的想象中。）你知道，说起来是一件神奇的事儿，当我还是小孩子的时候，我常常把自己吓到，那种感觉非常强烈。你知道。我常常会停下来，觉得全世界只有我一个人存在，然后会非常惊喜地看到其他人出现，我很惊喜是因为我不知道他们到底是从哪儿来的？

Katie:

Now you know, your imagination.

现在你知道了，他们来自于你的想象。

JoB:

When they walk into a room, you know, does that my...?

当他们走进房间的时候，你知道，那是我的想象。。。?

Katie:

They are your imagination. And what I mean by that, the story that you're experiencing about them, is who you believe just walked into the room.（Right）

他们是你的想象。具体我的意思是，你此刻正在经历的关于他们的那些故事，就是你认为的走进房间的那个人。（是的）

And you know , my question is who would you be without your story? You know, you would be the little boy alone ,and loving it , and a wild and wonderful fantasy.(Right) .And that's what life is, and it's a fantasy.（Yeah, that's amazing.）And what I invite the world to do, is to question their thoughts about life, and ,and really have a happy life. To , to question their thoughts , their stressful thoughts about , about life.

要知道，我的问题是，没有你的故事你是谁？要知道，你可能只是那个小男孩，深爱着这个游戏，充满了奇幻刺激的幻境。（是的）。那就是生活本来的样子，它是一场梦。（是的，非常刺激。）我所邀请全世界的人去做的，只是去质疑他们关于生活的那些念头，然后真正拥有一个快乐的生活。去，去质询他们的念头，他们那些关于生活的，觉得让自己有压力的念头。

JoB:

And in getting to that, that's what I got, the four questions addressed stressful thoughts? (Yes.) Correct?

既然说到这儿，我认为，功课的四个问题主要是针对那些有压力的念头，对么？（是的）

Katie:

Yes, they wake us up from the nightmare. And if we can wake up from the nightmare, we eventually come to see that life is a dream. and , and it's so beautiful, who wants to wake up, even though you're awake.

是的，那四个问句将我们从噩梦中唤醒。如果我们能够从噩梦中醒来，最终我们会发现生活不过是一场梦。它是如此的美丽，谁想在美梦中醒来呢？即便你已经醒过来了。

~~ 待续 ~~

lesliehuang

她开始在内心寻找伤悲，但是却没有找到。之后的几个星期，她一直在内心寻找伤悲，因为她的朋友们告诉她那是治疗失去亲人痛苦的一部分

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