果冻出品：凯蒂 "跟上现实”深度访谈（连载5）

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作者：果冻.Angela（来自豆瓣）
来源：https://www.douban.com/note/691314216/

果冻叨叨：《金刚经》中的 “过去心不可得，现在心不可得，未来心不可得”。凯蒂在这里的回答可以非常透彻地解释上面这段经文，分享~

接上~

JoB：

So，one of the triplets Sam, he likes dressed-up. He likes, he just likes putting on a little wedding gown. And you know, when you answer the door, and there he is. He's you ask him, he says“ I'm princess Sammy."(mm-hm) Before this, you know, it sounds great, you know. Before this, it's like,"Sam! you're a boy and boys don't wear wedding gowns."  Right? Perfectly normal response. One that is agreed upon by many. But you know, when you ask the question, is it true? (It's not.)It's not. And you know what? Sam can wear a wedding gown. As a matter of fact, he is wearing a wedding gown. So , that's true.

所以，我的三胞胎孩子中的一个儿子，山姆，他喜欢，他喜欢穿小婚纱。你知道，当你在应门的时候，他就站在那儿，你问他在干啥，他说，”我是山姆公主。“（嗯哼）在此之前，你知道，这是一个好故事。在此之前，我会说，”山姆，你是个男孩，男孩不穿婚纱。“对吧？非常标准的回答。大部分人都会同意这个回答。但是你知道，当你问问题的时候，这是真的么？（不是）答案是不！为什么？因为山姆能穿婚纱，事实上，山姆正在穿着婚纱。这是真的。

Katie:

That's true. It's very confusing for a child when you say boys wear wedding gowns, and they look down and they're wearing one. (Right.)It's like , you know, Okay, so, and It's not, you know they don't think it out consciously like this. They don't think, well my father is absolutely crazy,yes we do. They just think, wow,I'm really confused here. And then it gets scary, and they begin to doubt everything because if you don't know,they begin to doubt themselves and I think it's pretty scary for little kids.(Right.)

这是真的。对一个小孩子来说，当你说男孩不能穿婚纱的时候，他们低头看看自己正在穿着一件婚纱。。（是的）那就像是，好吧，你知道他们不会像我们这样有意识地去思考这个问题。他们不会想着，哦，我爸爸肯定是疯了。事实上，我们的确是疯了。他们只会想着，天，这件事真让我搞不懂。然后，他们会被这件事吓坏，他们开始怀疑世界上的每一件事。因为如果你作为家长都不知道是怎么回事的话，孩子们会开始怀疑自己。我认为这对小孩子来说是一件可怕的事情。

And we are all little kids until we catch up with reality.

实际上，在跟上现实的脚步之前，我们都是小孩子。

JoB:

So, you know ,Sam's wearing wedding gowns and great.Cuz that's what he likes. And Jacob says wedding gowns are for girls,(And that's his.)and that's Jacob's and he likes being a pirate.(mm-hm) And then you know, sometimes I'll intervene and say, you know, Jacob will say to Sam, "Sam, wedding gowns are for girls." And I'll say," Jacob,no,That's not true. that wedding gowns are for . no ,but it's true for you, but not for Sam." So, you know, and Jacob kind of goes" okay,Sam can wear wedding gown" you know. So , it's really wild. So that's that's the possibility of this. And it's a small example. But you know, it's a huge example.

所以，你知道，山姆穿着婚纱，很棒啊。因为那是他喜欢的东西。雅各布说，婚纱是给女孩子穿的。（那是他的世界）。那是雅各布的世界，他喜欢当一名海盗。（嗯哼）然后，你知道，有时候我会插嘴，雅各布对山姆说，”山姆，婚纱是给女孩子穿的。“我会说，”雅各布，不对。你说婚纱是给女孩穿的不是真的。不是，或许对你而言是真的，但是对山姆来说不是真的。“所以，你知道，雅各布会嘟囔着说，”好吧，山姆可以穿婚纱.."你知道，所以这真的很新奇。所以，这是这件事的可能性。这是一个小例子，但是它也是一个大例子。

Katie:

But you know, it's only the parent's fear and it's not as though Sam isn't going to look around and begin to notice for himself, the female gender wear the dresses and , and the other gender doesn't.He'll begin to notice and make his own choices.(Right) And ,and who knows. You know, he may,he maybe just so free that he just lives an honest life.(Right) And determined for himself if that's counterproductive or productive. They're so smart. They're so smart.

但是，你知道，所以那只是父母的担心而已。这并不是说山姆不会四处看看，并开始注意到女性穿裙子，男性不穿。他会慢慢注意观察并自己做出选择。（是的）谁知道呢。你知道，他或许或许只是诚实地活出了自己想要的生活。（是的），并且他自己决定这样做是有意义的还是没意义的。孩子们是如此的聪明，他们非常聪明。

JoB:

Very free for the parent, apparent me.So, that's the four questions at work. Maybe in something that seems small ,but it's not small. Because even when you speak about it like I didn't even get the part that, you know, you're, you're communicating something to whom when he said ,when you say "he shouldn't",it's, it's kind of.

对家长来说非常自由，对我显然如此。那就是四个问题在发挥作用。或许只是一点小事，但是它并不小。因为甚至当你说起它的时候，就像是如果我不了解这些，你知道，你和人沟通的时候，你会说“他不应该。。。”类似的话。

Katie:

And it's happening. (Right) That's the difference. It's, It's um, that's how we give them a past and a future too. You know, other than that, they're really living in the moment.(That's brilliant.)

而事实是你认为不应该的此时正在发生着。（是的）。这就是差别。（果冻备注：念头和现实的差别）。那就像是，我们也因着说“不应该”而给孩子们增加了一个过去和未来。你知道，除此之外，他们真的是活在当下那个时刻的。（太棒了！）

JoB：

What is joy for you?

对你来说，什么是喜悦？

Katie:

Joy for me , is the absence of suffering. And in that it's , it's very exciting ,like. I like to say that peace is underrated. There's nothing more exciting than peace. And, um, that's joy. And the excitement of living in the moment,in the excitement of no past or future.

喜悦对我来说，是没有痛苦。处在喜悦之中，是非常非常令人兴奋的。就像是，，我常说平静被人们严重低估。世间没有什么事情能够抵得上平静。嗯，平静就是喜悦，以及活在当下的那种兴奋，那种既无过去也无将来的当下的幸福。

And I like to say that I would get a future if I needed one. I just see no need or cause to DEVELOP a future.I don't see the neccessity of it at all.

我喜欢说，如果需要的话我会拿取一个未来。我只是觉得没有必要或任何理由去硬造一个未来。我认为根本没有必要。

And also I couldn't any more than anyone can, because we can't know what it is , because it doesn't  exist. But if we haven't questioned our past , then we have all of this stuff we believe, and what mind does with it is it projects time, mind assumes time and misses where it's at. So It's very very lost. (Mind is lost.) as identified as a body, because it's projecting a past and future that doesn't exist.

同时，我不能，任何人也都不能，因为我们不知道“未来”它到底是个什么东西，因为它根本不存在。但是，如果我们不去质询我们的过去，那么我们就始终怀揣着所有那些我们所相信的念头，而念头会用这些原料来投射一个时间，心念会假设有时间的存在，然后错失它原本所在的那个当下。它会非常非常迷失。（心念会迷失自己。。）将自己认同为一个身体，因为它投射了一个根本不存在的过去和未来。

Even Now, right now , is a projection. You know ,it's a concept. By the time we notice Now, it's gone. So what does exist? you know, if you really get,, if you get very very still, and begin to notice your thoughts, you'll see that they're all about what has been or what you're anticipating.(Right) It's all about anticipation or remembering.(Right) And , So, what is in the center? If every thought is about remembering or anticipating, what is in the center? and what is there that is real?

甚至“当下”，此刻，都是一个投射。你知道，它只是一个概念而已。当我们注意到“当下”的时候，它已经离开了。所以，有什么是存在的呢？要知道，如果你真的，如果你真的真的非常安静，开始注意你的念头，你会发现它们全部都是关于已经发生过的事，或者是你预计要发生的事。（是的）。它全部是关于预期和回忆。（是的）。所以，有什么是在预期和回忆中间的呢？如果每一个念头都是关于预期和回忆的，那么在中间的是什么？到底有什么才是真的？

So as you continue to use these questions, you begin to wake up to, um, to an amazing world full of joy, because you don't know what anything is. You don't know what you are. (Right.) And you just simply get to watch, the way you were describing, becoming um in touch with the end.(Right). You know, the children.

所以，当你持续利用这些问题质询的时候，你会开始觉醒，觉醒于一个充满了喜悦的美妙世界，因为你什么都不知道。你会不知道你是谁。（是的）。你只是简单地保持观察，就像你刚才所举得那个例子一样，开始触碰到现实的底线。（是的）。你知道，你会看见孩子的现实。

~~ 待续 ~~