果冻出品：凯蒂 "跟上现实”深度访谈（连载14）
本帖最后由 starinheart 于 2018-11-1 12:33 编辑版权归作者所有，任何形式转载请联系作者。
作者：果冻.Angela（来自豆瓣）
来源：https://www.douban.com/note/695110426/
JoB：
Well this," I took a test at a woman's magazine", you say" I was waiting in a hair salon the magazine caught my eye and I opened it and random. And that said 'how good a lover are you?' there was a page full of questions:' Do you prepare for his arrival?" No. 'Do you put on sexy llingerie?' No.'Do you try special techniques to please him?' No. I added up the numbers at the end and I discovered I had flunked the test. I love that. To their mind, I am a dud, to my mind, I am the perfect lover.
哦，书中的这一段内容是，“我做了一个杂志里的测验。”你在书中说道，“我正在发廊等待剪头发，忽然看见了那本杂志，我随意地打开它。里面有一篇内容是测试问卷，题目 ’你是不是一个好情人呢‘ 有一页的问答题：你会为他的到来精心打扮么？不。你会穿上性感内衣么？不。你会练习特殊技巧取悦他么？不。我把所有的问卷得分加总起来，发现自己是不及格的。我喜欢这个测验。对于他们的认知来说，我是一个废物；而对于我的认知来说，我是那个最完美的情人。
Why would I prepare for his arrival? How could I project anything better than Steven? And why would I bother? He is all I want when he walks in the door, and in every moment. Do I wear sexy ingerie? That might be fun, and I noticed that the thought never occurs to me. I also noticed that it's unnecessary. Do I have special techniques to please him? Why would I try to please him? He is already pleased and I did nothing for it. What were these editors' thinking? Love is not doing nor is making love, who needs props or techiques when the heart is wide open. The real plan is always the way of it, eliminating the need for any plan I might have. I don't know a thing about pleasing or being pleased. So there's no way I can't be the perfect lover." Wow,..
为什么我要为他的到来而精心打扮呢？我怎么能想到比即将到来的史蒂芬更好的事情呢？为什么我要操心那些事情呢？无论何时何地，当他来到我的门前，那就是我想要的全部。我会穿性感内衣么？那样做或许很有趣，同时我注意到这个想法从未曾出现在我的脑海中。我也注意到那样做是没有必要的。我会练习特殊技巧取悦他么？为什么我要取悦他呢？我什么都没做，他就已经非常高兴了啊。这些编辑到底在想什么呢？爱，不是做些什么事，也不是做爱。当心是完全敞开的，谁还需要道具和技巧呢？理想的计划永远是该怎样就怎样，根本无需我去做任何计划啊。我对取悦别人或者被别人取悦的方式一无所知。所以，我怎么可能会不是那个最完美的情人呢？” 哇塞。。。
Katie:
Yeah, and it's effortless.
是的，那根本无需努力。
JoB:
You know, they, the pressure to be hot in lingerie, and you know, what's that about?
要知道，她们的那种穿着性感内衣，想要让自己变得更有魅力的那种压力，你说，她们那样那是为了什么呢？
Katie:
Well, it's about , um , pleasing yourself. And in that it's absolutely understandable. If you're not all,,,,, if you're not pleased with yourself, then you look for other means to do it, that are outside of you.(Right). But when you're pleased with yourself, uh, if someone,,, if you take off your clothes and someone goes,"Eh~~", you know ,it's like, you know, how odd they would see me that way.You know, I hope they do better. And it shows you who not to be with.
嗯，那是为了取悦你自己。那样做是完全可以理解的。如果你不能，，嗯，如果你对自己不满意，那么你就会寻求其他的方法去满足自己，嗯，寻求那些外在的东西。（是的）。但是，当你对自己深感满意的时候，如果有人，，嗯，如果当你脱掉衣服，对方厌恶说，“呃···"，，你知道，那就像是，不管他们把我看成有多么的奇怪，我只是希望他们能好受点儿。而他们的反应也告诉了我，不要与谁在一起。
JoB:
Oh, you mean, like a lover type? (mm-hm ,uh-huh) You take off your clothes, they say,"ILL,,,", Right.
哦，你的意思是，像是情侣的关系么？（嗯，就是的）你脱掉衣服，他们皱起眉头说，“咦呀。。。”，是的，就是说的情侣之间。
Katie:
And, in all the lingerie, and they could go " Ooh~~!!" They can do the same thing, so you may as well be you.(Right) And,and I think it's marvelous to do all those things, for some of us, that's the best we have going as far as self-esteem.
而且，穿了性感内衣，他们也可能会皱起眉头说，“咦呀。。。。。” 他们可能会有同样的反应。所以，你还是你。（对的）我认为情人们去准备、去学习这些打扮技巧之类的事情也是很棒的。对于我们当中的一些人来讲，那只不过是我们在尽全力提高自尊的方式而已。
JoB:
You mentioned you went without food for 24 days?
你说过，你曾经24天没有吃东西？
Katie:
It was 29.
是29天。
JoB:
29, Oh, why would that?
29天？哦，为什么要那样呢？
Katie:
Well, it was very early after , after the experience. And ,uh, and I heard people talking about hunger, and I want to test it. So it's nothing more than that. (Right , that's) I wanted to see if,,, I was looking for things that were true., and, uh, and I could find any. In fact, I learned that hunger is just another concept,and very frightening when food isn't there. So again, that's how mind stays identified as a body. You know ,mind terrified that when the body dies, it has nothing to identify with. Therefore it's nothing, it's , it's scattered. Can you imagine being ,being mind not body? (No..)You'd have to identify as something to appear to exist. So there's mind and there's body. And if we would work on mind, the way we worked, worked on our body, or be concerned as with mind as we are with body, and put that time in on it. It would, uh, it would really shift us in a whole ,into a whole other paradigm,and that's what I'm asking people to do , to bet on the winner. You know, bodies don't make it.(Right.)
嗯，那是很早的时候，我刚刚经历过觉醒之后的事情。嗯，我听到人们谈论到饥饿，我想检验饥饿这回事。就这么简单。（哦，那是？）我想要看看是不是，我一直在寻找世界上真实存在的东西。嗯，我目前还一样也没找着。事实上，我了解到，饥饿也只不过是另一个概念而已。饥饿只是当没有食物的时候，一个非常吓人的念头而已。所以，还是一样的，那只是念头将自己认定为一个身体罢了。要知道，当身体死掉的时候，念头吓坏了，它没有可以认定为是自己的东西了。所以，它什么都不是，它是零散的。你能够想象自己没有身体只是一些念头么？（不能。。。）
你必须得将自己认定为是什么东西，才能显现为一种存在状态。所以，一边是念头，一边是身体。如果我们对念头做功课，就像我们对身体做的那么多事情一样。或者说，如果我们能够关心念头，像关心我们的身体一样多的话，并且投入时间去关注它，那么就真的会全面转变，转变为一种新的思维模式。而那也是我邀请人们去做的，去在赢家身上押注。要知道，关注身体是做不到那些转变的。（是的）
So ,work with mind, you know, it's, it's um it's everything.
所以，对念头做功课，要知道，念头才是一切。
So I tested hunger, and someone told me that, there were people from outer space and Martians, and that they were uh, evil and I was too free, and some Christians and told me, uh, I was too free and evil could get into me that I wasn't careful, I was too open.... I heard all kinds of things from all different traditions and ideas, and I tested them all. And I'm still open.
所以，我检验了饥饿的真实性。有人告诉我说，会有外星人和火星人，他们是魔鬼，我太自由了。还有些基督徒告诉我说，我太自由了以至于魔鬼可以侵入我的心灵，我太不小心了，我太开放了，，，等等。我听到了来自不同文化层面的各种声音，我每一样都检验过了。我现在依旧保持开放。
本帖最后由 starinheart 于 2018-11-1 12:33 编辑
版权归作者所有，任何形式转载请联系作者。
作者：果冻.Angela（来自豆瓣）
来源：https://www.douban.com/note/695110426/
JoB:
You know, interesting, you know ,you talked about with body,,,and you know, I don't really know, the gym has sort of shifted for me. Um, and I still go, is something about,, you know, having to produce a certain look , you know ,and I can just go , and , and even , and even wanting to produce that look, that's okay. You know, it's , it's just all of it is okay. You know what I'm saying? I want to produce that look? I don't,, do I? You know, Do I? Yes. Do I? No. But instead of saying"I do want to produce the look,and I believe it." or " I don't want to." or "I shouldn't be here." or "I should be there." I'm there!
要知道，有趣的是，你刚才提到了身体。我不知道能不能说健身确实改变了我。嗯，我还是会去健身房，你知道，去塑身，嗯，我可以只是去，甚至想要塑身也好，要知道，好像这样想也没什么问题。
你明白我的意思么？我想要去塑身？我不想？我想么？你知道，我想么？是的。我想么？不。
但是，不像是以前的那种念头，“我就是要塑身，我相信这有用！” 或者 “我根本不想塑身！”或者，”我不应该在这儿。我应该在那儿。“
不管怎样，我就在那儿啊！
Katie:
Yeah, instead, you just find yourself at the gym or not. (Right.I'm pumping iron.And yay!) Yeah.(So what?!) Yeah.(You know what I'm saying? It's free.) Yeah. Well, that's that's what we do. You know, we're free, to come and go, it's only the mind that would say that we're not.(Right)
是的，相反，你只是注意到你在健身房，或者不在。（是的，我在锻炼肌肉，那又怎么样？！）是的。（你明白我的意思么？我是自由的。）是的。嗯，那就是我们在做的事情。要知道，无论去不去健身房，我们都是自由的。只不过是念头在那里一直说着我们不是自由的。（对的）
But it's like on the way to the gym, the story could be running," I have to do this, I have to do this" or" I'm going to do it to look." you know ,all the stories running. If you question them, you know,"Who would you be without your story?" --- Going to the gym!(Right!)
但是，那就像是你走在去健身房的路上，头脑中故事会这样说，“我必须得锻炼，我必须得去” 或者，“我要锻炼让自己更健壮一些”，，，， 你知道，是这些故事一直在喋喋不休。如果你质疑它们，也就是是向自己提问：“没有你的故事你是谁？”..... 就是去健身啊。（对的）
There are two ways to go to the gym, one is in peace, and one is not. There're two ways not to go to the gym. And you noticed that sometimes you're there, sometimes you're not. (Right).
你可以带着两种心态去健身房，一种是平静的，另一种则不。也可以带着两种心态不去健身房。然后你会注意到，有时候你在健身房，有时候你不在那里。（是的）
It's like the child , uh ,Emma with the tantrums, you know, it's all a story.Who would we be without our story? You know, out going to the gym, and not.(Right) You know, out going to the tantrum ,and not. It's just what it is.
就像是你的小孩艾玛在发脾气一样，要知道，那全部都是故事。没有我们的故事我是谁？你知道，去锻炼了，和，没有去锻炼。（对的）发脾气，和，没有发脾气。它是什么就是什么。
JoB:
Do people worry that without their stories, although I don't know, that that's possible anyway to be without your story, but that there's something gonna be missing from from them, boring, that they'll be boring or they'll be ..(mm-hm) You hear that, right? (mm-hm).
有没有人会担心，没有他们的故事，，，嗯，我说不准啊，有没有可能， 如果没有你的故事，有人会觉得生命中失去了什么，会觉得无聊，他们会变得无聊，或者他们会担心。。。（嗯，是的），你明白，对吧？（嗯）
Katie:
The mind will do anything to keep from ,uh ,losing control. "It would be too boring if I did the work." Well, I would question that one. "I could lose my world, this is terrifying!" That's a good one. You know, question that one. And people who question what they believe, they do lose the world. They lose the world they understand it to be. And it's only the world of suffering that they lose, they don't lose the other. You know, it's, it's uh, it just works that way. And it's not that they don't lose the other, it's just a beautiful world that's left. Actually, HEAVEN is here on EARTH. But because we believe our thoughts about earth, it feels like hell. And so ,HELL is here on EARTH,heaven is here on earth.This is paradise, and we're asleep to it. and I'm inviting people to wake up, or not.
心念会尽其所能，嗯，去保留自己的控制权。“如果我做功课，我会变得太无聊”， 哦，我会质疑这个念头。“我可能会失去我的世界，那太可怕了”，那也是一个不错的念头。你知道，质疑它就好了。那些会质疑自己所相信的念头的人们，他们的确会失去那个世界。他们会失去他们所认为的那个世界，失去的只是那个让他们痛苦的世界，而不会失去其他的世界。要知道，嗯，那是，就是这么回事。并不是他们没有失去那个美好的世界，准确的说，应该是所留下的只是一个美好的世界。实际上，天堂就在这里，在地球上。但是由于我们相信了自己关于地球的那些念头，使它感觉起来像是在地狱一样。所以，地狱就在这里，在地球上；天堂就在这里，在地球上。这里是人间天堂，只是我们都不曾觉察。我邀请人们觉醒于此，或者不醒。
JoB:
Right,hehe. Wake up or not.
对的，呵呵，觉醒或者不醒。
Katie:
Yeah.But no one can wake them up. You know, these, these questions are again, the answers are personal, and they'll surface. You know,what I love is, when people, you know, anyone can do this work, if their mind is open to it. That they open to it, and just let that child's mind just surface,(Right), and those answers meet the questions,and, and not to fear it. Because, you know, you can take your old belief back anytime you want, and just take the risk and answer ,(mm-hm),and uh,and have a good life.
是的，但是没有人能够把他们叫醒。你知道，这些问题，还是那句话，答案是保留在每个人心中的，它们会浮现出来。要知道，我所深爱的是，要知道，当人们，只要有人们去做功课，如果他们的心智愿意对功课开放。他们愿意敞开心扉，让那些孩子气的念头浮上来，（对的），然后等待着答案与问题的相遇，并且不对此感到恐惧。因为，其实你知道，如果愿意的话，你随时可以将那些古旧的念头拿回来，只是冒险尝试一下功课，去回答它而已，（嗯），然后享受一份美好的生活。
JoB:
Right. right, who is the work for?
对的，所以，功课是为谁而准备的呢？
Katie:
Anyone who is available to answer the question. It's ageless. If you take a child, they think " Oh, I did it wrong." You take someone on their death-bed," Oh, I did wrong." You know, it's there. There's no young and old, there're only concepts believed. And anyone can answer these simple questions if their mind is open to it.
任何一个能够回答这些提问的人。它是不分年龄段的。比如是个小孩子的话，他们可以会想，“哦，我做错事了！” 比如是个临命终的老人的话，他们也可能会想，“哦，我做错事了。”你知道，就是这样的，不分年老年幼，只不过是相信了那个念头而已。任何能够回答这些简单的提问的人们，如果他们的心对这些问题敞开的话，功能就是为他们准备的。
JoB:
You know, I've done work, whatever,, workshops and ,and maybe thinking I got somewhere,whatever, um, and it's available to that person too, (Yeah), And it's avaiable to the person who still does the the workshops with the other people.(Yes.Yes),and it doesn't matter.(Yes.) and so I want (Yes) that ,I just think that's important for people to know, because, you know,my question wouldn't be okay.I worked with ex-teacher, which is fine.you know, or , and I, the way I see it, is, it's great because you can work with ex-teacher, and still,, because the four questions are not, it's ,it's about inquiry.(Yeah) So, so I don't see, I see it as harmonious.(It absolutely is) I do.
你知道，我做过功课，类似的，在功课小组或者在什么地方，或许我自认为我已经领悟了一些，到达了一定的层次之类的。嗯，所以，功课也适合于那种人，是吧。（当然）。也适合于那种依然与其他人做功课的那些人，是吧？（当然，当然。）其实，都没有分别的，对吧？（是的。）所以我想，我只是想让人们知道这是一件重要的事情。
因为，你知道，我的问题或许不太恰当。我和之前的老师一起做功课，那也不错。你知道，或者，我是这么想的，功课很棒因为你可以和之前的老师一起做功课，然后因为功课是关于质询的。（是的）所以，我认为这样做是没有问题的。（绝对的啊。）我确实这么想。
Katie:
I mean it doesn't, uh, there's no philosophy here, there's no religion here, there's nothing you have to do here, You don't even have to answer the questions. There is, there're no requirements. And anyone open to it,can ,can do it. It's mind's high play.But you know, why wouldn't, you know. If people say," I'm going to this teacher." and I think ,well of course you would, you know, there's , you , you like that teacher, why wouldn't you? (Right) You know, it would be like, like uh, being with a friend, someone you grow with, and learn from. You know, that is a healthy thing.
我的意思是，功课不是，没有什么哲学体系，功课也不是宗教信仰，没有什么你必须要去遵守的条条框框，你甚至都不必非得去回答那些问题。功课没有任何限定条件。任何对功课开放的人，都可以做功课。它是一种心念的高级游戏。但是要知道，为什么不呢? 你知道，如果有人说，“我要去找这个老师。”我会想，你当然要去啊，嗯，你既然喜欢那个老师，为什么不去找他呢？（对的）。要知道，那就像是，和一个朋友在一起，你可以向他学习，跟随他成长。要知道，那是一件有益的事情。
JoB:
And so， if you come to the , and if when you ask the four questions, you end up leaving the teacher, or so what? you know?
所以，如果你问了四个问题，然后你离开了那个老师，那又怎么样呢？是吧？
Katie:
Yeah. well, you could end up leaving the teacher anyway.(Right, wow, that's true.hahaha~~) Yeah, so, you know, its just a story we're telling(Right!) as life appears to go on.(Right.That's uh, Yeah, that's vey good.) It's like, uh, someone walks in the teacher and do all the becauses and the reasons, but if they question that, they're just moving on.(Right).It appears. No one has to be loyal to the work, because it isn't anything. It's four questions, and they don't even say answer me. So it's not even a Thing.
是的，嗯，其实不管怎样你总是会离开那个老师的啊。（是的，对，哇塞，这是真的。）是的，所以，要知道，那只是随着生活的展开，你所在讲述的一个故事而已啊。（对的！就是这样的，说得真好）那就像是，有些人去找某个老师，然后基于各种各样的理由去找那个老师，但是如果他们去质疑这些因为所以，他们只是去找了那个老师而已啊。（是的）。那就是事情本身。没有人必须对功课保持忠诚，因为它根本不是一个什么东西，它只是四个提问，它们甚至都没有说“回答我”。所以，它甚至都不能算是一个东西。
JoB:
Do people sometimes,, because that is hard to get, and I don't blame people, because I can get it.You know, do people sometimes misunderstand that?
那人们会不会有时候，因为这很难理解，我并不是在责怪别人，因为我能够理解他们。人们会不会有时候误解了功课呢？
Katie:
Sure. Because they're, they see it as a thing, and it's not.(RIght) But but of couse they would because I call it the work. So it sounds like a thing even though it's active. And I don't call the work for nothing. This is an ongoing process, because mind is ongoing until it's not.(Right)
Once it's at peace, it comes to see that it's not ,and life begins.
当然会啊。因为这些问题，看起来像是一个东西，而其实它们不是。（是的）但是，但是当然他们会误解，因为我把这四个问题称为功课。所以，尽管它是起作用的，但是那听起来还是更像是一个东西。同时，我也没说功课什么都不是。它是一个持续的过程，因为心念在停止之前也是一直持续着的。（对的）
一旦心念回复平静，它就会看清它自己并不是某个东西，而生活也就此展开。
JoB:
And so it's called the work.(Work).I'm good with that?
所以，你把它称为是要去做的功课，（功课），我理解的不错吧？
Katie:
Yeah. yeah, you know, the word is just in case people, you know, if you have someone thinks, let's say,I did the work and I thought" I am enlightened !" and you know, if you have the work, how can that be? You would have ro question that also. (Right)
是的，是的。要知道，用这个词语只不过是为了以防万一，要知道，如果有人认为，，，，举例来说吧，如果我做了功课，然后我自认为 “哦，我开悟了！” 要知道，如果你真的有在做功课的话，那怎么可能呢？你应该连这个念头也要质疑的呀。（是的）
So it doesn't leave any room higher or lower, or "they're wiser than I am." The questions will not allow that,(Right), if you answer them. It's , it leaves all of us equally. it leaves one mind balancing itself out.
所以，功课不会让你觉得自己更高或更低。或者如果你认为，“他们都比我有智慧” ，功课的四个提问也不会允许这个念头困住你，（是的）。如果你回答这些提问的话，功课会将你带到所有人都是平等的境地，它只会留下一个能够自我平衡的心智。
And as your mind balances, whatever you hear,in other words, as you continue to learn what is true for you and what is not, the whole world shits in that.Because you're able to hear and ,and be a part of reality,rather than seperate from it, and all begins to make sense.
如果你的心智平衡了，无论你听见什么，，，换句话说，当你持续了解了对你而言什么为真，什么为假，整个世界也就会因此转变。因为你能够听见现实，并成为现实的一部分，而不是与现实分离，所有出现在生命中的事物都会因此而变得有意义。
~~~ 待续~~
页:
[1]