amy 发表于 2018-4-6 22:38 static/image/common/back.gif
拜伦.凯蒂：Oprah与Byron Kaite的访谈
对，就是这个。：）
奥普拉（Oprah）对凯蒂（Katie）的专访3完结篇（中英版-果冻）
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作者：starinheart（来自豆瓣）
来源：https://www.douban.com/note/664856884/
拜伦.凯蒂：Oprah与Byron Kaite的访谈
视频地址：http://new-play.tudou.com/v/537454843.html?resourceId=0_06_02_99
果冻叨叨：最后一部分完结篇。 可以结合采访视频看英文，非常好。呵呵。
我常常想，未来或许等人工智能翻译发达了，就可以不用人工翻译了。不过今天我又想了一下，或许很难。因为这貌似还是个技术活。
同样的语言，不同的人有不同的理解，而机器或许没有那么灵活，呵呵。胡思乱想而已，未来的事儿谁知道呢，我的翻译只是我的体会与理解。
所以建议大家去看英文的原音视频，去聆听智者的声音、语调、情感、表现。那才是一个“全景秀”！感谢现代的科技发展，能够给与我们这样的一个机会，能够全真重现过去某个时段智者的话语与场景，这要比只看书来得丰富得多的多。
老公和凤宝昨天建议我不要再强烈推荐The work 给他们了，哈哈。说实话，我已经收敛了很多，因为这实在是太珍宝的东西了，哈哈。话说回来，他们的意见也很对，毕竟甲之蜜糖，乙之砒霜。或许我这个太好的心失衡了，所以修为不够啊。任何人与事都是平衡平等的，balance。所以，放下认为the work也是对别人是至真至善的宝贝或许更加恰当，毕竟它只是对我自己而言，我怎么知道别人的路该怎么样走呢？呵呵。最开始的人生是失衡，然后求平衡；再然后，发现连平衡都是虚幻的，便回归到本初状态，是什么就是什么了。
哇塞，漫漫长路啊，好在有光 ~~ ：）
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版权归作者所有，任何形式转载请联系作者。
作者：starinheart（来自豆瓣）
来源：https://www.douban.com/note/664856884/
Oprah: Welcome to soul serious,Hi, I'm Oprah, I can't get enough of loving what is by Byron Katie so much so they've invited her continue our conversation, talking about loving what is. Welcome back, Byron Katie. One of the things you talk about in the book is the three businesses, your business, everybody else's business and God's business. Most people as you've said to us in previous weeks worried about their , other people's business..
奥普拉：欢迎来到心灵成长系列访谈。我是奥普拉，我对拜伦.凯蒂的《一念之转》这本书言犹未尽，所以他们邀请她继续我的直播间，继续聊一聊热爱真相这个话题。欢迎再回来，拜伦.凯蒂。你在这本书中提到的一个内容是，世界上只有三种事：你的事儿，别人的事儿，以及老天爷的事儿。大部分人，就像你之前说过的，都在担心他们的，嗯，都在担心其他人的事情。
Katie: Our daughters, our sons, hunger, war (果冻插话：哦，我的天，这段简直就是专门针对我说的，我发誓真不知道今天会翻译这段文字，哈哈哈哈~~)，you know, and it were mentally running the world and we're asleep to our own.
凯蒂：担心我们的女儿、儿子、饥饿、战争，，你知道，那是在头脑中管着全世界的事儿，而对自己的事儿却是不清醒的。
Oprah: Okay, now you described in loving what is, I Know I wrote it down for myself because I was so struck by this.. Now where my notes?Uh, when you were talking about your own daughter who was a, an addict by her own words,(Katie: Yeah). Can you tell us about that? When you're waiting up for your daughter..
奥普拉：好的。你在《一念之转》这本书中，嗯，我知道我在里面划了重点，因为我被这句话击中了，嗯，嗯，我的备注在哪儿呢？嗯，当你谈到你自己的女儿，以她自己的话说，她是个瘾君子。。（凯蒂：嗯）。你能说说这件事儿么？当你在等待你女儿的时候。。
Katie: Well, uh my amazing daughter was full of resentment , I was so full of self-hatred and I took it out on my children, and it was not an easy life for them living with a mother that was so bitter, and when I had this experience waking up to reality, and I came to understand that my daughter was into drug and alcohol, and I just bought her a brand-new gorgeous car, and here she is, I'm seeing this,you know, drinking alcoholically and driving, but she would leave and, and I would wait up for. and Oprah, I would sit in a chair like this, and I would imagin her dead on the highway, I would imagine her raped , I would imagine her (Oprah: Right) killing other human beings, I would imagine her in the car rolled over out, we live in the desert, and rolled over with screaming for help and no one there.(Oprah: Right.) It was all in my imaginations, with all of the images, and all of the ..just as strong as they could possibly be.
凯蒂：好的，嗯，我那个非常可爱的女儿当时充满了愤恨，因为我曾经是个对自己充满怨怼的人，然后我把自己的这种情绪加注在我的孩子们身上，所以对他们来说，和这样一个恨意重重的妈妈生活在一起并不是一件容易的事情。后来，当我觉醒过来的时候，我开始理解到我的女儿已经开始酗酒和吸毒了，而我刚刚还给她买了一辆新潮的轿车。然后，你知道，我看见她喝醉酒开车出去了，然后我等着她回家。奥普拉，那时我坐在一个和这个差不多的椅子上，想象她可能死在高速公路上，想象她会被坏人欺凌，想象她（奥普拉：哦）撞死了其他人，想象她的车滚下山坡，要知道我们住在沙漠中，我想象她的轿车滚下山坡，大声呼救却没有人听见（奥普拉：哦）。那些都在我的脑海里，所有的这些场景，所有的，嗯，嗯，尽其所能地强烈地刺激着我。
Oprah: Living in your imagination，sitting there, imaging is she dead,is she gonna harm somebody else there.. That's when you were suffering? So. your imagination..
奥普拉：你活在你的想象中，坐在那里，想象着她死了，她可能会开车伤害到其他人。。那就是你在那一刻感觉到的痛苦吧？所以，你的想象。。
Katie: No. I've never suffered.(Oprah: You didn't suffered then?) I was sitting there, waiting to see what was true ,the difference between reality and fantasy.(Oprah:Okay). Until human beings get the difference between reality and sanity(果冻认为此处是凯蒂的口误，应该是fantasy), there's not going to be any peace.
凯蒂：不，我从没有感到过痛苦。（奥普拉：你那时候不觉得痛苦？）我只是坐在那儿，等着去看看到底什么才是真实的，等着去看清现实与幻想的区别。（奥普拉：好吧）。直到人们能够分清现实与幻想之间的区别，否则你不可能拥有平静。
Oprah: Now what you say in loving what is，is that，all the things you shared with here, "I'm a mother, I bought her the car, I'm responsible, I should take her car from her,she'll drive while she's drunk, she'll kill somebody, she'll crash into another car, as the thoughts appeared, and each one would be met with wordless thoughtless inquiry.(Katie:Yes).An inquiry instantly ,an inquiry means four questions.(Katie:Yes). Is it true? Brought me back to reality.Here is what was true, woman sitting in chair waiting for her beloved daughter.(Katie:Yes).Yes. That's the only thiing that was real.
奥普拉：你在《一念之转》的书中提到，你分享到，“我是一个母亲，我给她买了那辆新车，我是有责任的，我应该把车收回来，她酒驾，她会撞到别人，她会撞到其他车子。。。当这些念头升起的时候，每一个念头都相遇了一个无言无念的质询，（凯蒂：是的），即刻的质询，质询意味着那四个问题，（凯蒂：是的），那是真的么？等等。质询将我带到当下的现实。而这就是我当下的现实：一个坐在椅子上，等待心爱的女儿回家的妇人。（凯蒂：是的）。是的，那是那时候唯一真实的现实。
Katie: That's all that was real.
凯蒂：那就是全部的现实。
Oprah: And so for you who are listening, if you can seperate from your thoughts , be the awareness of your thoughts..(Kaitie: I said what is true ,and what is not.) What is true, and what is not?(Katie: Yeah) Well, how do we ,if we are ,you know , for most people as I said the beginning of this, is that most people are searching for ways to , you know, be in other people's business. And the biggest concerns are what other people are doing to them. How do you get away from, and I've had this issue that I'll share with you.
奥普拉：所以，对于正在收听这个节目的听众来说，如果你能够和你的念头分开，能够意识到你的念头存在。。（凯蒂：我是说能够看清什么是真的，什么不是。）能够看清什么是真的，什么不是？（凯蒂：是的）。好吧，我们怎么，嗯，你知道，如果我们，嗯，对于大多数人来说，就像是开头咱们提到的，大多数人都在伺机寻找，嗯，你知道，干涉其他人的事情。其中，他们最关心的就是别人怎么对待自己。那么，我们怎么能够摆脱这样的人呢？嗯，我想和你说说涉及到我的，有关这方面的事情。
Oprah：Ah, for me, and a lots of people I think have this issue, when you're the person in your family who makes the most money, or the person who's been,, (Katie:Yeah),,as successful, people have a tendency to look at you as a bank. (Katie: mm-hmm)..all right..
奥普拉： 嗯，对于我来说，我想很多人都有这个问题，就是说当你是全家赚钱最多的人的时候，或者是事业最成功的人的时候，（凯蒂：嗯），大家就会不自觉地把你当做公共提款银行。。。（凯蒂：嗯），就这样。。
Katie: I call it honest Yeses and honest Noes. (Oprah: All right) So if someone said it's like, if I'm Oprah, for example, Hypothetically, what are those people , what are those people say? So just be all of them rolled into one, and let's have a conversation.
凯蒂：我称之为诚实的“是”与诚实的“不”。（奥普拉：好的）。所以，如果有人说，就像是，嗯，假如我是奥普拉，假设这样，那么那些人会对我说什么呢？他们会对我说什么呢？所以，你将所有那些人都混合为一个人，然后我们来一次这样的对话。
Oprah: Okay. All right, so I have, I would, I want , I want to borrow some money from you..
奥普拉：好的。好吧。我，我要，我想，我想跟你借点儿钱。
Katie: You know, thank you for asking ,and No.
凯蒂：你知道么，谢谢你向我提出这个请求，但是不行。
Oprah: Oh, well, that ended it.(Oprah burst out of laugh..) That's not truely let it away, it goes.
奥普拉：哦，天，这就完事儿了。（奥普拉笑得不行），他们不可能这么好打发，，，。
Katie: let's have that conversation.
凯蒂：那我们接着聊。
Oprah: I can't believe ,I can't believe it all, that you have and you're helping other people all the time, that you won't give me $100,000.
奥普拉：我不敢相信，我真不敢相信，你有这么多钱，你一直都在帮助别人，但是你却不肯借给我10万美元。
Katie: I know it just sounds nuts,doesn't it? But it feels right to me.
凯蒂：我知道这听起来很傻，不是么？但是我心里觉得这样做是对的。
Oprah：Well , all I'm asking for is $100,000, and you have it ,you have it.
奥普拉：好吧，我只不过跟你借10万美元而已，而且你有，你有这些钱的。
Katie: That's true, I do,I do.
凯蒂：对，那是真的，我确实有这些钱，我确实有。
Oprah: And I want some of it.
奥普拉：我想跟你借点儿。
版权归作者所有，任何形式转载请联系作者。
作者：starinheart（来自豆瓣）
来源：https://www.douban.com/note/664856884/
Katie: I know, I know.
凯蒂：我知道，我了解。
Oprah: Okay, nevermind the conversation.
奥普拉：好吧，那算了吧。
Oprah: Oh,my gosh.
奥普拉：哦，我的天啊。
Katie: See, it goes back to defense is the first act of war. (Oprah:Okay. It's because I'm defending it.) Yes, like "you don't have any right" ,(Oprah: like "you should, you should and you should) Yeah,(Oprah: I can't believe , I haven't,and dadada..) And that is war belongs on paper, it ,it , to question it, and then it just leaves love. But well, all I was experiencing is , is they're, they have a problem, I don't . I mean that's really kind.(Oprah:I was done what I thougnt was the kind thing.) Yeah,yeah（Oprah：And I should be enough.）Well ,it is enough. But if you continue to say yes, you train them to come back. (Oprah:Yes, absolutely.) It's like, ah, why do they do it? well ,you continue to say yes, and then guilt because you're not living out of your heart.(Oprah:mm-hmm).
凯蒂：看吧，这又回到了之前说过的那个问题，“防卫是战争的第一步”。（奥普拉：好吧，那是因为我有在防卫这件事。）是的，就像是说，“你没有那个权利。。”（奥普拉：就像是“你应该，你应该，你应该怎样怎样）是的。（奥普拉：就像是“我不相信你竟然。。”“我不能再。。”等等）那是属于纸面上的战争，去，去质询那些念头。然后，你会发现只剩下爱存在。但是，好吧，刚才在对话中我所感受到的，只是，嗯，他们有个问题，而我没有。我的意思是说，那才是真正的善良。（奥普拉：我在做我认为对的事情。）是的，就是这么回事。（奥普拉：我应该知道够了）。是的，已经够了。但是，如果你回答“可以”，那么你就等于在训练他们再来向你借钱。（奥普拉：是的，绝对是这样。）那就像是，嗯，为什么他们会这样做呢？好吧，那是因为你一直都在说“可以”。然后，你会觉得很内疚，因为你并没有活出你真心想要做的事情。（奥普拉：嗯。。）
Oprah：I love the example you used in the book ,the woman said ,"my husband , you know, I hate my husband." she said I don't have sex with my husband, my husband's a loser,my husband's all of these things. And in the beginning when you first started asking her, she said," Yes, he is a loser."
奥普拉：我喜欢你在书中的那个案例。有个女人说，“我老公，你知道，我讨厌我老公。”她说我不想和他进行夫妻生活，我的老公是个失败者，我的老公等等等等。你最开始问她“那是真的么”的时候，她回答说，“是的，他妥妥的是个失败者。”
Katie: Yeah, in her opinion, and the mind gives her all of the proof, all of the images compares him with other man etc. , and she turns her off. That's no kind of sex life.(Oprah: Right.)But if she thinks, if she questions it and turns it around, you know, and then to see what is as true or truer, not to change a person's mind, that's not what the work is about, but to realize what is as true or truer to the enlightened mind.
凯蒂：是的，她的念头是那样认为的，然后头脑提供给她所有的证据，所有的将她老公与其他男人比较的画面，等等。这些画面让她自己反胃，并再也不想和她老公进行夫妻生活了。（奥普拉：是的）但是，如果她想，如果她能够就那个念头进行质询，并反转念头的话。你知道，就是去看看那个反转的念头是不是也是一样真实的，或者是更真实的。这并不是要改变一个人的想法，那不是功课要做的事情，功课只是让你看到，对于一个清醒的头脑而言，哪些是真实的，或者说，是更真实的。
Oprah: Okay, she says even his breathing makes me ill, I want to leave him because of his breathing(Katie:yes.).Even his breathing. Well, in some cases when somebody says, you know, my husband's a loser or they're taking advantage of me. Ah, this person doesn't respect me, or doesn't, you know, value me. Sometimes that is true!
奥普拉：好的。她说甚至连他的呼吸都让我难受，因为他喘气的方式，我都想要离开他了。（凯蒂：是的）。甚至他的呼吸。。好吧。在有些情况下，当某些人说到，你知道我的意思，当她们说我的丈夫是个失败者，或者我丈夫占了我的便宜。嗯，这个人不尊重我，或者你知道，不拿我当一回事。有时候，她们说的那种情况是真实的啊！
版权归作者所有，任何形式转载请联系作者。
作者：starinheart（来自豆瓣）
来源：https://www.douban.com/note/664856884/
Katie: Well, if I thought another person should value me, then I've got a trouble, I've got a problem. You know, people can't value me if they don't. Can you value someone when you don't? It's not possible.(Oprah: NO.) So we question what we're believing about that person.
凯蒂：好吧，如果我认为另一个人应该尊重我，那么我就有麻烦了，我就有问题了。你知道，如果人们不尊重的话，他们不可能尊重你啊。当你不尊重另一个人的时候，你能勉强自己尊重他么？那根本不可能。（奥普拉：是的，不可能）。所以我们可以将自己对那个人的想法进行质询。
Oprah: I can't say that there are people that in my family , I feel that there're people in my family who don't respect me. (Katie: Okay. Is that true？) Yeah! that is true. (Katie: Okay, so how do you react when you believe the thought, people in my family do not respect me?)
奥普拉: 我忍不住要说的就是我家里确实有些人，我觉得我家里就是有些人对我不尊重啊。（凯蒂：好吧，那是真的么？）是！当然了，那是真的。（凯蒂：好的。所以当你相信了那个想法的时候，相信了“我家里有人不尊重我”的这个想法的时候，你有何感受与反应呢？）
Oprah: It makes me angry, it makes me resent them, it makes me not want to talk to them, it makes me want to push back,(Katie: Yes.), it makes me not feel loving, it makes me want to avoid them,(Katie: Yes.),it makes me all of those things.
奥普拉: 那让我感到气愤，我恨他们，我不想和他们说话，我想反击回去，（凯蒂：是的），我感受不到爱，我想要回避他们，（凯蒂：是的），那个想法让我感受到所有这些。
Katie: Yes, and who would you be without the thought, my family doesn't respect me? (Oprah: Would I be?) Imagine yourself with them, imagine yourself..(Oprah: But I know, I've seen it too many times!) Well， I'm not asking you not to believe it. (Oprah: Okay.) I'm simply asking you just for a moment (Oprah: Yeah.) to witness who would you be, (Oprah: Who would I be.), without the thought they don't respect me.
凯蒂：是的。然后，如果没有那个想法，我的家人不尊重我的那个想法，你有何感受与反应？（奥普拉：我会怎样？）想象你自己正在和他们在一起，想象你自己。。。（奥普拉：但是我知道，我见过他们不尊重我好多次了！）是的，我没有让你不相信这个想法。（奥普拉：好的。）。我只是请你只是暂时地（奥普拉：好的），嗯，只是去看一下，如果没有那个想法，没有那个“他们不尊重我”的想法时，你是谁。（奥普拉：我会怎样。）
Oprah: Okay, I would be different.
奥普拉：好吧，我会完全不同。
Katie: Yes. And they would be entitled to their own opinion. They could could respect who , I mean , they have a right to not respect or to respect people. (Oprah: Yeah.). And you would be aware of that, who would be without the thought they don't respect me. And so let's turn it around. (Oprah: Yes.). They don't respect me, what's the opposite?
凯蒂：是的。然后他们也拥有了保留自己意见的权利。他们可以去尊重，，嗯，我的意思是说，他们有权利去尊重或者不尊重别人。（奥普拉：是的）。然后，你也能够觉察到，没有那个“他们不尊重我”的这个想法的时候，你自己是谁。所以，让我们接着反转。（奥普拉：好的）。他们不尊重我，怎么反转呢？
Oprah: I don't respect them?
奥普拉：我不尊重他们？
Katie: Yes! Look how you're not respecting them. (Oprah: How so?!) . Well, if they don't respect you, you're not respecting it. How respectful is that? (Oprah: Huh?) Like if you don't respect me, (Oprah: Yes),and I don't respect that. If I don't respect that you don't respect me, (Oprah: then I'm not respecting you. Okay, I got it.epiphany, I got that)
凯蒂：是的！看看你是怎么不尊重他们的。（奥普拉：那怎么可能？！）好吧，如果他们不尊重你，而你不尊重他们对你的这个不尊重。你怎么能说自己尊重他们呢？（奥普拉：什么？）就像是，例如，如果你不尊重我，（奥普拉：好的），而我不尊重你的这个不尊重。如果我不尊重那个你不尊重我的事实，，，（奥普拉：那么，我就没有尊重你。好的，我明白了。我突然明白了）。
Oprah：So if you don't respect me, if you're gonna take advantage of me, and I ..
奥普拉：所以，如果你不尊重我，如果你要占我便宜，那么我。。
Katie: How could？No one can take advantage of me.(Oprah: No one can?) That's not possible, (Oprah: Okay）. I mean when they came to you for money, who said yes? And who did you disrespect?
凯蒂：那怎么可能？没有人能够占我的便宜。（奥普拉：没有人能？）那是不可能的。（奥普拉：好吧。）。我的意思是说，当他们来向你要钱的时候，谁说的可以？你在不尊重谁？
Oprah: Oh, let's see who did I disrespect...
奥普拉：哦。。。让我们看看我在不尊重谁。。。。
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作者：starinheart（来自豆瓣）
来源：https://www.douban.com/note/664856884/
Katie: Yes. That would be you.(Oprah: Yeah, I just disrespect myself?). Yes. .(Oprah: I disrespect myself by giving them the money?) You didn't want to! (Oprah: Okay, all right, all right.). It was disrespectful to both of you and.. (Oprah: To give them the money？) Yes, Because you didn't mean it.(Oprah:Okay.)
凯蒂：是的，你在不尊重你自己。（奥普拉：啊？我不尊重我？）。是的。（奥普拉：因为我给他们钱，所以我不尊重我？）是的，因为你根本不想给啊！（奥普拉: 是的，对的，对的。）那是对你们双方都不尊重。。（奥普拉：因为给他们钱？）是的，因为你并不是真的从心里想要给他钱。（奥普拉：是的）。
Katie: You're trying,, You know, we try to, we do it thinking our guilt is going to be less, but our resent bills.
凯蒂：你在试着，嗯，你知道，我们会努力，嗯，我们这么做是原以为这样做，我们的内疚会少一些，可是事实上却是憎恨为此买了单。
Oprah: No, we do it thinking not that feels guilt be less, well maybe we do. I havent thought about it enough. Maybe you do it thinking maybe this time will be, this will be it. So whether it's $50 or $500, (Katie: It doesn't matter.) It's just disrespectful ,(Katie: Yes),for me to give money to people,( Katie: Well, it's not honest for you.) ,when it's not honest for me.
奥普拉：不，我们做那个不是因为会少点儿内疚。我们这样做或许，嗯，我还没有完全想过这个问题。或许你这样做，是因为你认为这会是最后一次。所以不管是50元还是500元，，（凯蒂: 都没有关系的）。你是说我把钱给他们，就是对我自己的不尊重？（凯蒂：是的，因为那并不是出自你的真心），哦，当那个给予并不是出自我的真心真意的时候。
Katie: And and to give the money to, you know, as though if I give them this, it'll be over. (Oprah:Yes.) You know, because that's, that is, that's ,you're living out of ,you're living a secret life and that's painful.(Oprah:Yeah.) You know, I would say "I'll give you this, and this is the last time I'm giving you money. "And, and see I couldn't even say that because it may not be. But I said, " I'm giving you this and it's my hope that is the last time you'll ask me for money again."(Oprah:Ah-huh). And , and then the next time they come back, if I still feel not to give them the money, then I say,"I care about you, and no." (Oprah: and no.)
凯蒂：并且把钱给出去，你知道，就像是暗地里说，如果我把钱给了他们，那么这事儿就永远结束了。（奥普拉：是的）。你知道，因为，那样的话，你就让自己活在了，活在了一个秘密的生活状态中，而那会是很痛苦的。（奥普拉：是的）。你知道，我会说，“我把这个钱给你，但是这是我最后一次给你钱。” 嗯。。。你看，我很难这么说，因为这或许不是最后一次。但是，我会说，“我把钱给你，我希望这是你最后一次向我要钱。”（奥普拉：啊哈。）然后，下一次他们再来的时候，如果我还是觉得不想给他们钱，那么我会说，“我很在乎你，但是，不行。”（奥普拉：不行。）。
Katie: See, No has two parts, we tell them the truth, and then the No. It's like I care about you, I see that that you may be in trouble, I really hear that you need it, and I have to tell you No.
凯蒂：看，这个“不”含有两层意思，一个是我们说了真心话，第二个是不行。那就像是，我在乎你，我知道你或许陷入了麻烦，我听见你说你真的需要钱，但是我不得不拒绝你。
Oprah:Well, this is what's great about the inquiry ，because I , you know, hearing you talk this way, because in reading it, I was thinking, "Oh, gosh, you're just gonna walk around in peace with your cell phone, and tapes everybody all the time..”
奥普拉：好吧，这正是质询最棒的地方。因为，你知道么，当我最开始听你谈论质询的时候，因为我是在读你的书，所以我想，“哦，天，你应该是挎着手机，平静地四处行走，然后给每个人灌顶。”
Katie:mm-No.You know, what good is integrity if it doesn't bring clarity? And clarity, you know，the truth is is ,it's just, it's oh my goodness, it's the truth that set us free.
凯蒂：嗯，不是那么回事的。你知道，如果诚实不能够让人清醒，那它还有什么好处呢？而，清醒，嗯，你知道，嗯，真相，它，它，哦，天，只有真相能够让我们自由。
Oprah: Yes. Well let's get back to this whole, not take advantage of me. Because I think, you know, I think you rang a bell there, there're a lot of people..
奥普拉：是的，好吧，让我们回头看看那个“没有人可以占我的便宜”。因为我在想，你知道，我在想你在这儿踩到了一个地雷，因为有很多人，，嗯。。
Katie: How can somepone take advantage of you? how is that possible?
凯蒂：别人怎么可能占我的便宜呢？那怎么可能发生呢？
Oprah: I don't know, I'm thinking about that.(Katie: Yeah.It's not.) It's there a lot of people who feel taken advantage of.(katie: There're definitely are. Victims, victims) People use, they feel that people, you know, use them. And there're a lot of , I had this for many years of my life, I can say I don't have this anymore,is this whole desire to please everybody, you tried to please,tried to please, (Katie: hopeless). Yes. That's a hopeless situation.(Katie: Yes). Yes.mm-hmm..(Katie: Yeah. well, it's never enough..) And you gave and gave, gave,gave., it's never enough.yes?
奥普拉：我不知道啊，我只是想到这儿了。（凯蒂：好吧，那不可能。）有很多人都觉得被别人占了便宜啊。（凯蒂：确实有些人这样想，受害者，受害者）。人们会利用，他们认为，你知道，他们认为别人利用了他们。也有很多人，嗯，我自己曾经很多年都是这样的，我能说我现在已经不这样了。你知道，就是非常希望能够取悦每个人，你一直努力地去取悦别人，努力去取悦。（凯蒂：没有希望的。）是的，那是完全没戏的。（凯蒂：是的）。是，嗯。（凯蒂：是的，那永远不可能满足。）然后，你给予、给予、给予，永远不可能满足别人，是吧?
Katie: mm-hmm.So how is it possible that someone could take advantage of me? You know, if someone took their fist and ,and like they didn't ,like something I said, they just hit me as hard as they could, and I knocked me clear against the wall. (Oprah: Yes.). I began to laugh. Why？（Oprah：Why would you that？） I'm not crazy any more, it's over, that is a state of grace.They hit me and it's over. Of couse I'm grateful，it's over. Now here is where the pain because,(Oprah: Gosh, you are different soul.), the mind begins to think "they shouldn't have done that, how dare they do that", (Oprah:That's right.),and the mind shows they hit over and over and over , it's like he hit me once, but I use in his name to suffer. I used that image hits of him hitting me, and all of a sudden, I'm a victim, and oh... and oh...and I get the world to agree...
凯蒂：嗯，是的。所以，别人怎么可能占我的便宜呢？你知道，如果有人用拳头，嗯，他们不，嗯，就像我说的，他们用尽全力打了我一拳，让我撞到了墙壁上。（奥普拉：是的）。我会开始大笑。为什么？（奥普拉：为什么呢？）我没有疯，我笑是因为那已经结束了，那是一种感恩的笑。他们打了我，那件事儿已经结束了，所以我非常感恩。那结束了。现在这儿，才是痛苦的所在，（奥普拉: 天，你和别人真的太不一样了），痛苦源于此刻的念头，头脑会开始想，“他们不应该打我，他们怎么敢打我”，（奥普拉：是的），然后念头开始一遍遍地展示他们打我的那个画面，那就像是说他打了我一次，但是我以他的名义让自己痛苦，我利用他打我的那个画面来打击自己，突然之间，我就变成了一个受害者，接着是，哦。。。哦。。天啊。。。我会让全世界都同意。。。
Oprah: And you blow in your mind, he hit me， he hit me， he hit me ...
奥普拉：然后，你不断地打击自己，他打了我，他打了我，他打了我。。
Katie: And I get the world to agree that this is a terrible thing. And no one stops to consider it's over. And if he hits me again, it's over, if he hits me again, it's over, and eventually I'm out the door as soon as I can get to the door.
凯蒂：然后我会让全世界都同意说，那是一件可怕的事情。但是，没有人停下来想一想，那件事儿已经结束了。如果他再给我一拳，那结束了，如果他再给我一拳，那结束了。最终，只要我能到达门口，我会尽快地跑出去。
Oprah: So, you're not saying then ,take the abuse？
奥普拉：所以，你难道不会说，就这么忍了吧？
版权归作者所有，任何形式转载请联系作者。
作者：starinheart（来自豆瓣）
来源：https://www.douban.com/note/664856884/
Katie: Oh, no. It's like if if I'm just shocked, and he hit me, then ,uh, I need to do something about that ,and , you know, do I want to live with someone who is going to hit another human being that way. So if I stay, the next time he hits me, he didn't hit me, I hit me. It's like his job is to hit, that's a man or a woman who hits people, that's his job. Everything has its job.everything has its job. His job is to hit woman if we use like a male in this case. (Oprah: Yes.) And ,uh,,,
凯蒂：哦，不。那就像是我只是很震惊，他打了我。然后，嗯，我需要做一些事情，你知道，我会问问自己，是不是还想和一个会那样打别人的人继续一起生活。所以，如果我留下来了，下一次他打我的时候，不是他打我，而是我打了我。打人就像是他的工作。他的工作就是去打女人，我们在这个案例中用男人来举例。（奥普拉：好的），嗯，，
Oprah: And if you stay...
奥普拉：如果你留下来了。。
Katie: If I stay, I can no longer say he hit me and shocked and suprised, I mean， he's doing his job.You know, the dog bites. (Oprah: okay.) Some dogs do, some dogs not, this dog bites. So he hits me, I'm not shocked or surprised, I hit me at that point. But then we go out into the world and we say he hit me, he hit me, and we all agree the world is a terrible place to live. We're not taking responsibility for our own, our own self. And so that the clearer we get, as we question what we believe about life and people and ourselves, the clearer we get, the kinder we become, and ..
凯蒂：如果我事后留下来了，我再也不能说是他打的我，并感到震惊或者惊讶。我的意思是说，他只是在做他的工作而已。你知道，狗会咬人。（奥普拉：好的）。有些狗咬人，有些不咬，但是这只狗咬人。所以他打我，我并不会感到惊讶或吃惊，从某个意义上说，是我打的自己。我们出去和全世界说，我们说“他打我，他打我，他打我”，然后我们都一致同意这个世界太可怕了。但是，我们并没有为自己承担起责任，没有为我们自己承担责任。所以，当我们质询头脑中那些对生活、对人们以及对我们自己的那些想法的时候，我们会变得越来越清醒；而当我们越来越清醒的时候，我们会变得越来越善良。。
Oprah: And so, it's always, always about you, me? (Katie: Always. always) . It's always about me.(Katie: Always,always.) It's never about the other person.(Katie: It can not be.) It can not be.(Katie: It can not be.) So, people who are pissing us off,,( Katie: We have to look to ourselves.). It's always about us?
奥普拉：所以，那总是，总是关于你，关于我的问题？（凯蒂：总是，总是）。总是关于我自己的？（凯蒂：总是，总是）。永远不可能是别人的问题？（凯蒂：那不可能）。所以，人们把我激怒了。。（凯蒂：我们需要看看自己。）总是关于我们自己的？
Katie: If we're going to get free.( The pissy?) Always，always, always, always, always.
凯蒂：如果你想要获得自由的话。（那些刺激？）总是, 总是, 总是, 总是。
Oprah: Always.(Katie: Yeah.) So we should, all I was gonna say, you ask yourself the four questions , We learn this again.(Katie:Yes) .Is it true.
奥普拉：总是。（凯蒂：是的）。所以我们应该，我想说的是，你可以向自己提出四个问题。我们再来学习一遍。（凯蒂：好的）。那是真的么？
Katie: Is it true? Can you absolutely know that it's true? How do you react when you believe that thought, what happens? The fourth question, who would you be without the that thought. And then turn the concept that you're inquiring of around. And find opposites to see what is as true or truer. And just to notice is the concept that you're dealing with, is it peaceful or is it stressful? And if it's stressful ,and then I invite you , my job is to invite the world to the work. And the work again has no power. It is each of us individually, it is our power in our own answers that's set us free.
凯蒂：那是真的么？你能百分百确定那是真的么？当你相信了那个念头的时候，有何反应，发生了什么？第四个问题，没有那个念头的时候你是谁？然后，将那个你正在质询的念头反转。找出一些反转，看看那是不是也同样真实或者更加真实一些。然后，只是去观察你正在想着的念头，那是令人平静的？还是让你觉得有压力? 如果那是有压力的念头，那么我邀请你，我的工作就是邀请整个世界来练习这个功课。再次强调一下，功课本身并没有什么力量，而是我们每个人自己的，那是存在于对这些问题的回答中，那是我们自己的智慧让我们获得了自由。
Oprah: You're saying that you are not some guru whose saying that my work is the answer.
奥普拉：你说过你不是那种心灵大师，会声称说我的功课就是答案。
Katie: Oh, my goodness, I‘m still working on me.
凯蒂：哦，我的天，我自己还在一直做着功课呢。
Oprah:You're saying that the work has the power as it is applied by each person.
奥普拉：你说只有将功课用于自身，它才会发挥效力。
Katie: As it is, as it is applied by each of us. yes.in each person.
凯蒂：只有功课被应用在我们每个人自己的身上，是的，应用于每个人自己。
版权归作者所有，任何形式转载请联系作者。
作者：starinheart（来自豆瓣）
来源：https://www.douban.com/note/664856884/
Oprah: Okay, but you know, what I think of, for , for many people who are new to this kind of thinking and even for myself , when I first started reading loving what is , and I hear about not resisting the moment, I understand that in certain, in a certain context, and then I think about, as an african-american ,growing up in the United States at a time when there was a whole group of people ,civil rights leaders , and people whose names made the history books and did not, who made it possible for me to be where I am, (Katie: Yeah) , to sit where I am today, and had they not resisted the injustices, had they not fought against , uh, what was the , what was considered the norm, you know, I wouldn't be here, nor would there have been progress or success. So, how do you explain of define that?
奥普拉：好吧，但是你知道，我想到，对于很多新手而言，甚至对我自己而言。当我第一次读《一念之转》这本书的时候，我看见你说不要对抗当下，我理解这句话在某些情况下是成立的，在特定情况下是成立的。但是，我又想到，作为一个非裔美国人，成长在美国这个国家，在这个国家曾经有那么一群人，比如民主权利的领袖，以及那些载入史册或者没有载入史册的人们，正是他们使我今天能够待在这里，（凯蒂: 是的），使我能够坐在我现在的位子上。难道他们不是因为抵抗了当时社会的不公平，难道他们不是还击了，嗯，当时的社会规则么？你知道，否则的话，我不可能在这里的，我也不可能进步或成功。所以，你怎么解释或者定义那些事情呢？
Katie：It's so slow. (Oprah:mm-hmm) .Even though it appears fast, it's , you know, in our lifetime, it's so slow, (Oprah:Right). I say, faster, you know, the work is for people in a hurry(果冻补充，在另一个人视频中解释过这个huarry的意思，是hurry to end their suffering),you know ,for people suffering that are in a hurry , and, and ,and, yes that's true it's the best we had going for us on this planet.(Oprah:Right).But it is ready, it's, you know, this is a whole other paradigm that we're steping into， and basically as we believe our thoughts, we are going to fight, and that is slow. You know, can you imagine a world that is so ancient that they still kill each other? (Oprah: Yeah) . Where they still hate each other. Well, you know ,it's it's ,for me, that's an ancient world. And we're all just kind of ,just moving on to all this (Oprah: Evolving from this) ,Evolving from that, but yes those minds, and yes that courage, you know, that's the Gods there. (Oprah: It's necessary for that time.) .Absolutely.
凯蒂：那太慢了。（奥普拉：嗯）。即使它看起来很快，但是，它还是，你知道，对我们的一生而言，它还是太慢了，（奥普拉：对的）。我是说，可以更快地去，你知道，功课是对于那些想要更快一点儿终结痛苦的人。你知道，功课是对于那些正在遭受痛苦的人更快一些的解决方法。嗯，嗯，你说的那些事情是我们这个星球在当时最好的选择。（奥普拉：是的）。但是，现在已经，现在，，嗯，你知道，我们完全进入了一个新时代。简单来说，如果我们相信了我们的念头，我们就会去反抗。那太慢了。你知道，你能够想象当代世界是如此地老旧，现在人们之间还在互相杀害么? （奥普拉：是）我们现在还在互相杀害。嗯，你知道，那，那对我来说是太远古世界的事情了。我们都，嗯，慢慢地走到今天。（奥普拉：从这儿进化了），从那儿进化了。但是，那个时候的那些念头，那种勇气，你知道，是，是神圣的。（奥普拉：对于那个时代是必要的。）完全正确。
Oprah: And you're saying this is a different time and a different way of reacting.
奥普拉：你说这是一个不同的时代，有一个不同的对痛苦的终结方式。
Katie: Yes. (Oprah: Yeah), you know, you know, I have to tell you , Oprah, I , one of the most moving things I've ever seen in my life, was I watched you not long ago, you were, you were facing, there was a crowd, it looked like all around you, and you had your arm in the air lilke this, and you said,"I am a free woman. " (Oprah: Oh.). And you turn behind you is I am a free woman, and I, it was, it just rang from my head to my toe. That's our birthright as a human being. Freedom, you know, I was in, I was in a very large prison, uh, one day when I was there working with these men. A man started screaming, and he screamed and he screamed, and it set every one of many other men off screaming. But he was screaming because he was shut in a cell with his head. I mean, he was shut, they shut him in there with himself. (Oprah:mm) And when you believe your thoughts, you are, you are, that's hell.(Oprah: Right). And you put a Buddist monk in there, and you shut the door, he says "thank you".(Oprah:mm) Yeah.( Oprah: I got that). But this man that you lock up, you know, it's " I'm a terrible human being, I did it wrong, there's no hope for me.Uh, no one understands....". That is hell.
凯蒂：是的。（奥普拉：好吧）。你知道，你知道，我曾经告诉过你的，奥普拉， 我，嗯，我生命中最感动的一次，就是不久之前我看见你，你在一大群人中，他们好像都围绕着你，然后你向我这样伸出手臂，你说，“ 我是一个自由的女人。”（奥普拉：哦。）然后，你转过身又说，“我是一个自由的女人。” 那，你真的彻底打动了我。自由，是我们生而为人的天赋权利。自由，你知道，我曾经去过一个很大的监狱。嗯，有一天我在那儿和这些犯人做功课的时候。一个男人开始尖叫，他叫啊，叫啊，后来很多其他犯人也跟着尖叫起来。但是，他之所以尖叫，是因为他被关进了牢房，不得不面对自己的头脑。我的意思是说，他被锁了起来，警卫们将这个犯人与他自己的想法锁在了一起。（奥普拉：嗯）。其实如果你将一个佛教的和尚关进牢房并且锁上门，他会和你说“谢谢”。（奥普拉：嗯）是的。（奥普拉：我明白了）。但是这个被锁起来的男人，你知道，嗯，与他相伴的是那些念头，“我是一个可怕的人。我做错了。我再也没有希望了。啊，再也没有人能够理解我。。。”。。那是地狱。
Oprah: I got that epiphany just then, cuz right, there's only him in the cell with himself. (Katie:Yeah). And he's screaming. (Katie:Yes, oh my ..). Because he's left alone with his own mind. (Katie:Yeah). Well then, don't, do, do you believe that some people deserve punishment for those things they just did.
奥普拉：我突然明白了你的意思。因为你说得对。在那间小牢房中，只有他自己与自己相伴。（凯蒂：是的）。所以他尖叫。（凯蒂：是的，老天。）因为他不得不与自己的这些念头相伴了。（凯蒂：是的）。好吧，你难道不，嗯，你不觉得人们应该为自己所做的坏事儿受到惩罚么？
Katie: Absolutely not. Oh my goodness, you know, no one would hurt or harm another human being if they were not confused, no one would kill another human being if they were not believe their thoughts. If someone walked up and, you know, if someone ..
凯蒂：我绝对不同意。我的天，你知道，如果他们不是犯糊涂的话，没有人真的会伤害另一个人；如果他们不相信自己的想法的话，没有人会杀害别人。如果有人走过来，嗯，你知道，如果有人。。
Oprah: This is just radical, this is so radical. How are we, what are we gonna do with the prisons and all those people who are harming people?
奥普拉：这太颠覆了，这太颠覆了。那我们怎么，我们要监狱干什么呢？我们该怎么对待那些正在伤害别人的人呢？
Katie: You know, I say that if they question what they believe, then they rehabilitate it, and then when they come out, they are different human beings.
凯蒂：你知道，我说的是，如果他们能够质询自己所相信的念头，那么他们就能够重获新生。当他们出来的时候，他们就会成为完全不同的人。
Oprah: Okay. But do you believe that they have to be incarcerated, someplace?
奥普拉：好吧。但是你相信他们必须得被关进牢房，或者其他什么地方么？
Katie: Well, absolutely, if I hurt you and I hurt someone else, and I hurt some one else. Have you ever hurt someone, you know that feels? (Oprah:Yes). My goodness, stop me, if you love me, stop me, lock me up, (Oprah:Yes), because it hurts me to harm another human being,(Oprah:Right), it's ，it's mercy.(Oprah:Yeah,right). But then give me some way to deal with my mind, so that I don't do it again. (Oprah:mm-hmm), and that way is self-realization, God realization, and the work is, it is, it is the way to wake up.
凯蒂：嗯，绝对必要。如果我伤害了你，我伤害了其他人，嗯，如果我伤害了别人。你伤害过别人么？你知道那种感受么？（奥普拉：是的）。我的天，快阻止我吧，如果你爱我，请快点阻止我，将我锁起来吧。（奥普拉：是的）。因为伤害别人会让我自己受伤。（奥普拉：是的）。那是，把犯人关起来那是一种慈悲。（奥普拉：是的，对的）。但是，接着要给我一些可以处理我的念头的方法，这样我才不至于旧病重犯。（奥普拉：嗯）。那个方法就是自我解脱，上帝的解脱，嗯，功课，它就是，就是帮助人们觉醒的方法。
Oprah: And you're saying the self-realizaiton not live doesn't mean a thing. It's just a bunch of goo goo gah gah.
奥普拉：你说过，没有活出来的自我解脱一点儿意义也没有，那只不过是一堆不知所云的词句而已。
Katie: Yeah, exactly.
凯蒂：是的，完全正确。
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作者：starinheart（来自豆瓣）
来源：https://www.douban.com/note/664856884/
Oprah:Yeah. So incarcerate but in the process of incarceration, do allow them to do the work?
奥普拉：是的，所以是应该关进牢房的，但是在关在牢房的这段时间里，允许他们做功课么？
Katie: Yes.(Oprah: Yeah). Yes, very simple, very simple.
凯蒂：是的。（奥普拉：哦）。是的，功课非常简单，非常简单。
Oprah: Thank you, Byron Katie.
奥普拉：谢谢你，拜伦.凯蒂。
Katie: Oh, you're so welcome. these moments.
凯蒂：哦，你太客气了。
Oprah: Uh, unlike anybody, you know, not only see the glass half full, you see it overflowing.
奥普拉：嗯，你知道，你和其他人不一样，你并不是一知半解，你真得把真相看穿了。
Katie: Well, the universy is friendly and I invite people not to believe me, but to test it for themselves.
凯蒂：嗯，宇宙是友善的。我也邀请人们不要相信我的话，而要自己亲自去探索真相。
Oprah: Thank you, what a joy.
奥普拉：谢谢，真好。
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完结。果冻-Angela 2018-4-8 ：）